In all fairness though, I think fights against mind-controlled, hypnotized, gone-insane opponents should not always be considered prime examples in cases where said opponent is stalemated or defeated. Often the affected character fights like a CIS-afflicted idiot, not using the full range of their powers and fighting with less skill or strategy than usual. Also there is the question of how far their faculties and reflexes are affected, and how much they are consciously or subconsciously fighting the effect - either distracting them or holding them back. A lot of these fights just don't seem quite right.
Though they can give some indication of a fight especially where no other examples are available, you can't blame people for not always accepting them as strong evidence.
On the other hand if an opponent is under mind control or crazy and still wins... that probably says something.
It does for showing the ability to beat someone of top-tier power. And Superman was still using tactics, his powers in combination and thinking for himself, so he wasn't like normal puppet mind control, he was simply given a vision to make him rage.
Anyway, she's fought Superman lots of times and done well when he's not under any influence.
For that matter the only time she's even gotten major injuries in their fights instead of just hitting back and forth (ala how CM does) is... well, when he's either influenced to not hold back at all, or externally boosted. Most of the fights it's standard hit for hit stalemate, without being pushed to the edge they can stand against each other for awhile.
I will note that with gauntlet, WW's got more raw power than all of those.
The point was one all out punch ko'd her. That shows she ins't in his league which proves my entire case. She needs to avoid and flee for her life and maybe she can gain the upper hand like she did against a mindcontolled Supes.
Ww is more highly skilled yes, but she relies heavily on her own skill and despite this is still at a huge disadvantage because they are stronger and more durable which this fight proved.
Superman's more effective than WW and in a direct macthup he can ko her as soon as he connects. Her fleeing from him isn't proof she's in his league. Use some common sense.
No, I always go by what I believe is the writer's intention he wasn't going for sun amp there. The times he was sun amped or the sun aided him it was either directly referenced or the art clearly showed it. This did neither.
The gauntlets of atlas multiply the users strength by ten. So if Wondy is just marginally behind Superman in strength regularly, the atlas amp makes her ridiculous.
someone doesn't know what "class 100" means, I take it. Drax with the power gem was also "class 100".
That version of hulk looks like "professor" hulk (who iirc lacked the ability to amp his power like the other hulks do) but Hercules and Thor have no defined limits to their strength level.
Thor hitting something *with mjolnir* does even more damage than a barehanded attack as well- AND it's a horrendously powerful magic item that seems to do nothing vs. quasar's shields.
There's no way you can definitively argue that wonderwoman with the gauntlets hits harder than hercules + thor with mjolnir combined, since marvel hasn't seen fit to put a limit on where their strength level actually is. is it a 100 tons? a thousand? ten thousand? a billion? several billion? it's not hard to come up with feats that can successfully argue for ALL of these.
ONE "class 100" could beat wonderwoman amped with those gauntlets, depending on how that class 100 was written and what his/her feats were.
Last edited by Space M ummy on Dec 18th, 2010 at 02:11 PM
Ok. Wonder Woman's more in like with Herc and Thor than Prof Hulk to begin with.
Sure I can, since she's the same way. She helps moves moons and planets and fights with Superman all the time and can exchange blows with him for awhile and hurt him.
That, times 10.
Thor and Herc don't have a precise limit, but that's not the same thing as having unlimited strength.
Mmm... it'd have to be a 'class 100' a whole lot stronger than Thor and Herc and so on, because she's around their level to begin with, unless you're arguing Marvel characters are far stronger than DC ones.
This at least I agree with. professor hulk's strength level is so low as to be irrelevant here.
This is where your logic falls apart. "helping to move the moon" isn't really much of a feat, since superman and MM were "helping" to move it as well, and superman is definitively stronger. Do we know how much of that is diana's strength? not really. Even if we assume the weight is distributed evenly (and we really shouldn't) that top end feat is only 1/3 of the moon's mass.
Add to that things like moving the midgard serpent that equals the earth in mass, Throwing his hammer at 3x lightspeed, lifting the world engine, lifting all of asgard (with beta ray bill)- Thor's strength feats are flat out better than wonder woman's.
The issue is we don't know HOW much stronger a top end thor is. Current colossus is "class 100", but thor is EASILY in excess of 10 or 20 times stronger- despite being "class 100." Thor COULD be 2x, 3x, or even 10x stronger than wonder woman is- marvel hasn't seen fit to define that, and hercules is his equal.
they don't need "unlimited strength"- by feats it's already obvious thor and hercules are stronger. just how MUCH stronger is what's in question. If either one is 5x stronger than she is (and that's a distinct possibility) then the gauntlets of strength don't allow her to hit stronger than they do combined. And I don't need to argue that ALL marvel characters are stronger, I just need to argue that THOSE two are stronger than wonder woman.
if this was Superman or Captain Marvel, it'd be a different argument. But we're getting off track. my point here was that throwing around the term class 100 like they're all equivalent-and they aren't- is a stupid way to try and make an argument. just because Thor is a class 100, and wonder woman is class 100, does not mean that wonder woman x10 is equal to ten thors.
Last edited by Space M ummy on Dec 18th, 2010 at 04:01 PM
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