Juyo Vs Vaapad user, there is no inherent advantage between the two.
Juyo is completely feeding off of dark side energy from all around them, as well as all negative emotion such as fear, hatred, jealousy, rage, doubt.
Vaapad user is feeding off of the light side energy all around them, and skirting the edges of the dark side energy around them, to transform it into more light side energy.
Juyo user is going to feeding off all negative emotions such as fear, hatred, jealousy, anger, doubt both of their own self and all around as well as the dark side energy around them. Vaapad user is limited in the dark side energy they canconvert to light side, it really comes down to who has better force reserves and speed, strength.
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Last edited by Board Walker on Jun 1st, 2012 at 10:21 PM
Where are you getting this information? State your sourcea, please.
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I'm pretty sure Bane does confirm or suggest it in The Book of Sith.
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He still largely is. Nihilus or Traya may be able to defeat him in a fight (may), but only due to their completely broken Drain. That isn't a representation of power. Other than that there really aren't many who legitimately challenge him.
Refer to this please, both of the above quotes. Juyo is stated to be a complete combat form for the sith, as it draws entirely off the negative emotions and fully submerges the user in "darkness". specifically Juyo feeds on fear, anger, rage, jealousy, doubt, emotion, etc.
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Last edited by Board Walker on Jun 2nd, 2012 at 04:15 AM
Your OP is based on the premise Vaapad isn't superior to any other saber style. I provided evidence stating that it is. Are we now comparing Vaapad and Juyo? Or are we going to stick with cpmaring Vaapad and "any other saber style" as you originally put it? Vaapad with its metaphysical properties is by all means superior to forms that lack these properties. And to think otherwise is, well... illogical.
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I was mistaken. The Book of Sith does not declare Juyo to be an inherently dark side form, though it does mention that you must allow your emotions to fuel you. Bane mentions fear, hatred, anger, etc.
__________________ Major Valerian
A few years back we, teh people of teh forums, considered DE Sidious as the most powerful Sith Lord ever
Nephthys
He still largely is. Nihilus or Traya may be able to defeat him in a fight (may), but only due to their completely broken Drain. That isn't a representation of power. Other than that there really aren't many who legitimately challenge him.
I said where are you getting this information from? Provide the passage and the page number of whatever document you're getting this from.
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"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
We ought to consider the source too though. Sith practice of Juyo may be different. I wish I could recall what Kevar tells you in KotOR II when he trains you in it.
Aggressive, yeah, but meant to be unpredictable in practice. Maybe it' son Youtube, but Kavar talks about the fighting style before he learns you it in the game. May give a Jedi perspective since the only other time we see Juyo described is after it is infused with Vaapad's "finishing touches".
To clear the air ,on the Vaapad Factor,it is up to the practitioner 's skill and mastery of that style.Yoda said it was the deadliest.Vaapad does draw,excuse me (feed)on the dark side.Examples,Depa vs Mace,read Shatterpoint.Now the state of mind of Vaapad,is what makes it unique from any form of lightsaber combat.Mace,Sora,Depa and Quinlin Vos had a very unique and different approach to its state of mind.Mace created Vaapad,Sora refined Vaapad,Depa surpassed both creators and Quinlan,mastered Vaapad to a degree that he doesn't even know that he mastered Vaapad.
Now someone is confused.o.k Vaapad is the best,why?BC it gets the job done.It excepts the willingness to kill,it excepts the willingness not to kill. read (Shatter Point).Vaapad has the skills of each lightsaber style,it deflects blaster bolts like soresu and shien,light saber to light saber combat like makashi and djem so,uses the force in combat and lightsaber sequences like niman as well as uses jar'kai(dual saber)fights multiple opponents like shii cho and its knowledge of the target zones.juyo its unpredictability,its controlled passion,everything Juyo is,Vaapad is a lil bit more.Sure any style can have a state of mind but can they have the mind to kill like Juyo and Vaapad?
After reading every ones replies,I think they all were great!!!! How ever I disagreed with some.You brought up some good points but you're missing the big picture.Vaapad is the superior style whether on the battle field or what it generally specialises in dueling and killing dark siders.Remember in shatter point ,Depa said to win this war we must no longer be jedi? you cannot go into war with a jedi state of mind but a warrior 's state of mind.u can't use the diplomatic lightsaber forms you gotta use the aggressive ones and what better aggressive style than the ultimate aggressive style of Juyo and Vaapad.You can use Shien/Djem So,you can use Ataru to some degree,even Soresu not by itself . After seeing Obi Wan use Soresu + Ataru +Jar'kai + a lil of Shii cho and whatever martial art style he was using in the Revival episode,I personally have a new respect for Obi Wan Kenobi.its practitioners like him that analyse a style's weakness,go back and find another style to counter that weakness and use that style or styles to his advantage.Now a practitioner of any style can do the same thing and counter any style but if that practitioner is not use to fighting a true master of Juyo or Vaapad then he or she has their work cut out for them!!!!
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O.k. my bad got a little too excited....What I mentioned about Vaapad's skills is not in Shatter Point,
it's just a theory of mine. Think Lord in order to learn Vaapad,you had to learn multiple styles of lightsaber combat,including Juyo. If that is what we are to believe.
Example,Quinlan Vos....learns Shii cho,then Ataru...a little later learns Shien.
When they retrain him Sora Bulq teaches him Vaapad. How much of it we do not know.
Mace spars with Quilan.... Mace recognises Vaapad in his blade work. Immediately haults the duel.
Mace asks who taught him,Quinlan says Sora Bulq but he didn't say what the technique was or its origin. In my opinion Vaapad borrows the skills I mentioned.
Vaapad is the finished product of Juyo. With 3 different masters to learn it from.
I know Sora Bulq is dead,but Mace Windu,I refuse to believe is dead. Depa is in a comma,this is true did she survive the purge? I believe someone saved her from the purge. Maul returns from the dead Krayt returns also but dies again .
I believe she's in somebody 's hospital under an alias name,constantly being watched and monitored like that pilot in the millennium falcon.book . very good book one of my fav's.
Lord,there is alot about Juyo/Vaapad that the authors are not telling us. In Shatterpoint, Mace and Depa are reflecting blaster bolts with their lightsabers using the power of Vaapad. I don't remember the pages but they both use the Jar'Kai tactic with each other's lightsabers.
In Shatterpoint,Mace explains to Kar about Vaapad and the Jedi Rules (pp 399-401).
Before these pages you'll read them using some form of acrobatics but not as graceful as
Ataru. As you read on Mace is CONSTANTLY aware of the dangers of using Vaapad in certain situations and in certain areas of the jungle.
It doesn't surprise me that Mace shows Ataru and Niman moves. Because Juyo/Vapaad users have to be high level masters of multiple forms.
But still I don't believe any form is the all and end all. End of the day Maul is a Juyo Master. In fact I think he completely mastered it. But he clearly can't defeat Kenobi in a strict Saber match.
Starkiller was also a user of Juyo, yet he had difficulty in pretty much every lightsaber fight he was in.
So clearly there's a lot more to Lightsaber fights than what form they use, and how many forms they know.
Combat smarts, battle tactics the level of mastery in their chosen form and of course their level of connection to the force all make a HUGE Difference in Saber combat.
Jun 1st, 2012 03:14 AM
