It still doesn't mean EVERY summon, even ifrit and bahamut in FF7, when the PARTY summons him ifrit just comes onto the battle field and attacks.. the character doesn't move anywhere and stays exactly where they are , in AC Both the shadow creeps and bahamut just comes and attacks which is even more evidence, you cannot claim ALL summons are illusions just because of those couple battles in CC.
throughout FF7 when you play as Sephiroth no elemntal damage hurts Sephiroth, also when ifrit shot at Zack Sephiroth stepped in the way and the fire didn't harm him
I'm just saying theres no real evidence that supernova is an "illusion"
Are you daft? Crisis Core is the most recent entry into the series, therefore it is the highest degree of canon other than the words of the creators. That means that all summons environmental effects are illusions, beyond a shadow of a doubt. FF VII didn't have the graphical capabilities to show the illusionary factor, and since it has been retconned by Crisis Core it is not valid evidence in this instance.\
You mean except for the fact that the latest entry in the series blatantly shows us that summons are illusioons, the fact that Sephiroth can cast it multiple times and the planets are there to be destroyed again every time, etc...
Again, 1 or 2 summons does not = EVERY summon, in CC, seems like the summons brought zack into their realm to fight, but in FF7 / AC, when the summons were actually SUMMONED, they were SUMMONED to the battlefield.
Every summon can be casted more then one time, and the same sequence will happen over and over again, duh its gameplay mechanic.
Once again, Crisis Core retconned what FF VII couldn't achieve graphically, and Bahamut Shin is a special case as explained by AC's creators.
That is because they are illusions. I'm afraid the entries in the compilation and its creators words hold a little more weight than your ignorant rantings. Only a fool would carry on as you are doing now, notice how no one else agrees with you?
Of course there's no tree in the real world the size of Cleyra. You will now quantify how much power it would take to reduce something of its mass to a crater in seconds. Judging by the fireball, the required firepower is qual to that of the A-Bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
I hope you know you can't prove this statement.
The Iifa Tree is much larger than most of the cities in IX and is a millennia-old mechanism designed by a space-ferrying race. Bahamut also did not intend to destroy the Iifa Tree but merely to attack Kuja.
You need to drop your assumptions and desperate attempt to demean FFIX firepower.
It's outright stated by Zidane that it's lucky Lindblum surrendered or they would have ended up like Cleyra.
Implication being Atomos COULD have done that but it wasn't ordered to because Lindblum had admitted defeat.
Also, Brahne wanted the jewel in the city. It be kinda impossible to get at it if Atomos sucked it up. So, from the start, Atomos' mission was not to suck up all of Lindblum.
You do realize Bahamut's only reason for being there was for Garnet and Eiko to summon Alexander? If Kuja ordered him to destroy the city and the castle, there be no uber-summon and Kuja's plans be destroyed.
More like they get the power respect they deserve and you've resorted to assumptions, guesswork and general bullshit to try and demean them.
__________________ Earth is a beautiful addition to the Galaxy...but an even finer accessory on the hand of a God.
Where is the quote for Bahamut sin? What about Shadow Creepers summon? Do they have a "special case" as well?
Because they are illusions? No its simple GAMEPLAY MECHANIC, same thing in FFIX, the same cutscene sequence repeats itself over and over when a summon is used, SIMPLE GAMEPLAY MECHANIC, Does this mean FFIX summons are illusions as well? NO, as you can see when they are used outside of gameplay where the gameplay mechanics dont apply, it becomes more realistic..
Same thing with FFVII when summons are used in the movie.
This is common knowledge, it is YOU who are giving out "ignorant rantings"
Beings which are called forth from summon materia, many of which outwardly resemble monsters. As seen in the original game of FFVII, the summon beasts draw their targets into their own unique space in order to attack. However, Advent Children's Bahamut Tremor, was a summon beast who attacked while interacting with the real world.
No, its shown in cutscenes outside of gameplay in Crisis Core quite clearly. Its not a gameplay mechanic, its part of the stroy.
Now, if my arguments are so ignorant, why are you the only one disagreeing with them? As seen above even the creators of the compilation state that you're wrong.
Can you give a proper link to where that referance is from? The guy at GS just posted it as well without giving reference to where this "translation" is from, the thing i dont understand about that quote is
"As seen in the original game of FFVII, the summon beasts draw their targets into their own unique space in order to attack."
- As seen in the original game of FFVII? In the original game only KOTR was the only summon to "draw their target into their own unique space in order to attack" the rest just got summoned forth
And what about the shadow creep summons then? Why doesn't it mention anything about those?
Yes i'd like to see where this is originally from.
So basically what your saying is in FF7, when the summon comes forth it turns everything into an identical illusion of the battlefield, and everything it destroys on the identical battlefield is just an illusion?
This information is all in the Crisis Core complete guide, from the key word section that details quite a few terms in the world of FF VII. Look, you've been defeated, instead of trying to disprove the games creators just move on and accept that the summons, supernova included, are merely illusions.
First you say, its from the UOG, looked through the translation, it says nothing about bahamut sin there, then you say its from the "Compilation Ultimania Guide" yet theres no translation of this anywhere, now you say its in the "Crisis Core complete guide" still without giving me a reference as to where you got the information from, and you still don't answer any of my questions... wow
You do realise that this alone pretty much destroys your argument that all summons with the exception of Bahamut Sin are illusions, right? As is stated, there's no illusion, the summons simply draw their targets into "their own unique space."
The source information was an error on my part. I was thinking about the compilation UG but the information is from the Complete Guide. I don't have a source, its simply in the book. The creators have spoken against you, sorry champ.
Also, wow, making socks to help yourself in an argument. How mature.
Wow assuming like a moron, how mature. SOLDIER 1st is not me, if i had something to say i'd say it on my own account.
First of all in FF7, there was only ONE summon that brought the enemy into another realm, in CC there was the 2 summon fights where they brought Zack into another realm, this doesn not EQUAL ALL summons must do it to harm the opponent
Stating that in AC Bahamut Sin was attacking in the real world does not EQUAL that Bahamut Sin is the ONLY Summon capable of doing that, as shown in AC Shadow Creeps were doing it too.. in FFVII just about every summon was doing it.
According to the creators the summons in FF VII all bring you into an illusionary realm. Their word has a lot more weight than your word, I'm afraid.
As for the Shadow Creepers, they aren't traditional summons, they are the negative lifestream being manipulated by the remnants into a form to attack an opponent, quite different from the other summons.
Did you read it? It says they bring you into their own space(see: illusion) and that Bahamut Shin can interact with the real world. If they weren't illusionary then they wouldn't specify between the summons "own realm" and the real world. Also, as pointed out earlier Crisis Core clearly shows us they take their victim into an illusionary realm.
Beings which are called forth from summon materia, many of which outwardly resemble monsters. As seen in the original game of FFVII, many of the summon beasts draw their targets into their own unique space in order to attack. However, Advent Children's Bahamut Tremor, was a summon beast who attacked while interacting with the real world.
^ Fixed, i like how you cut out the word "MANY" to try to make it seem like ALL summons bring their opponents into a realm, again it doesn't say ALL summons do it, from what we have seen, only KOTR, and the battles where bahamut, and ifrit did it to Zack.
Again, stating that Bahamut Tremor attacking the real world, does NOT mean that it's the only summon capable of doing that, proven by the Shadow Creepers,
Shadow Creepers are infact SUMMONs as stated by the UOG.
Last edited by Terryc250 on Apr 18th, 2008 at 07:50 AM
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