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Stephen Hawking
Started by: Da Pittman

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King Kandy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Da Pittman
By the definition that he wants to use it fits 4 (one in debate) of the 7 criteria of life.

Lets look at a cell in the same list.

Homeostasis: No
Organization: No
Metabolism: Yes
Growth: Not really
Adaptation: No
Response to stimuli: Yes and No
Reproduction: Yes


Actually this is the true list:

Homeostasis: Yes
Organization: Yes
Metabolism: Yes
Growth: Yes
Adaptation: Sort of
Response to stimuli: Yes and No
Reproduction: Yes

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Da Pittman
I have no idea where you are going with that analogy and it doesn't fit into the topic.

Well I'm off to bed, if you respond I will read it in the morning.

Here, i'll give you a guide.


My heart (cell) is a human (organism) heart (Cell). It is not a human (Organism). Even if there were floating sentient heart beings (Single Celled Organisms), my heart (Cell) would still not be human (an Organism.)


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Old Post Apr 25th, 2008 04:00 AM
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Da Pittman
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Your list...

1. Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, sweating to reduce temperature.
2. Organization: Being composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
3. Metabolism: Consumption of energy by converting nonliving material into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
4. Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of synthesis than catalysis. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter. The particular species begins to multiply and expand as the evolution continues to flourish.
5. Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
6. Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism when touched to complex reactions involving all the senses of higher animals. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun or an animal chasing its prey.
7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms. Reproduction can be the division of one cell to form two new cells. Usually the term is applied to the production of a new individual (either asexually, from a single parent organism, or sexually, from at least two differing parent organisms), although strictly speaking it also describes the production of new cells in the process of growth.



Homeostasis: How does a cell regulate a constant state?
Organization: Corrected (I missed the or in the statement)
Growth: How does a cell grow? I’m not talking about taking on matter but growing, it divides yes but it does not grow.
Adaptation: How does a cell change over a period of time in response to the environment?


And I still have no clue what your analogy has to do with the debate??? A dog is not a cat, so what?


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Last edited by Da Pittman on Apr 25th, 2008 at 04:12 AM

Old Post Apr 25th, 2008 04:08 AM
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King Kandy
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Homeostasis: It absorbs and releases salts and water as well as proteins to remain in a constant state.

Growth: It gains more organelles and replicates it's DNA, as well as creates and brings in new proteins. If it divided without growing it would just keep getting smaller and smaller.

Adaptation: I'm not sure actually, you could be right.

My analogy explains how cells can be alive without actually being living organisms.


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Old Post Apr 25th, 2008 04:20 AM
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chithappens
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy



Here, i'll give you a guide.


My heart (cell) is a human (organism) heart (Cell). It is not a human (Organism). Even if there were floating sentient heart beings (Single Celled Organisms), my heart (Cell) would still not be human (an Organism.)


I'm still not sure what being sentient has to do with anything. That seems like a different subject altogether.

You are not explaining what a virus does not have life. The cell explanation is cute but focus on the virus.


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Old Post Apr 25th, 2008 04:26 AM
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Da Pittman
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
Homeostasis: It absorbs and releases salts and water as well as proteins to remain in a constant state.

Growth: It gains more organelles and replicates it's DNA, as well as creates and brings in new proteins. If it divided without growing it would just keep getting smaller and smaller.

Adaptation: I'm not sure actually, you could be right.

My analogy explains how cells can be alive without actually being living organisms.
Homeostasis: A cell itself does not perform Homeostasis but the host body does.

Growth: That is part of the division and replication process and not part of the growth cycle of a cell. This would be like saying that a baby grows up to an adult, splits in two and now there are two babies again. Now I could be wrong but this is the way that I read and understand the definition of growth that you are using.


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Old Post Apr 25th, 2008 09:58 AM
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tsilamini
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
My analogy explains how cells can be alive without actually being living organisms.


so the cells within plants that don't grow, alive or not?


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Old Post Apr 25th, 2008 11:57 AM
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King Kandy
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Since it applies to the species and not the individuals, they are alive.


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Old Post Apr 25th, 2008 11:43 PM
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tsilamini
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so, as an individual I am not alive, but as a species we are?


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Old Post Apr 26th, 2008 03:10 AM
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King Kandy
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No... whether you are considered a "living organism" is determined by the species, i.e. if you are sterile you are still a living organism since humans as a whole can reproduce.


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Old Post Apr 26th, 2008 03:24 AM
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Da Pittman
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
No... whether you are considered a "living organism" is determined by the species, i.e. if you are sterile you are still a living organism since humans as a whole can reproduce.
So what inimalist said is correct, he is not considered alive it is the species that is considered alive.


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Old Post Apr 26th, 2008 06:07 AM
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