So all of that inconsequential waffle aside the only reason u hav for equating DC's Source to TOAA is the fact that
a)the Source sits beyond creation and TOAA is called TOAA
b) The Living Tribunal is yellow
Kevdude thats the poorest case ive ever seen on these forums.
That is the basis for your argument and you've padded out your post with unrelated therefore irrelevant stuff to mask that fact.
For a start by all accounts the Source is the energies of creation it is the Big Bang and during that moment was when it came into being. How then does TOAA equate to The Source when Phoenix is the Big Bang?
TOAA has never been seen in comics either on panel or by the characters themselves you therefore have no evidence whatsoever to make such claims, whereas Phoenix has the same role as the Source in Marvel it to manifests as the Big Bang, its power runs through all life in Marvel, it sustains all life in Marvel and in a crossover Darkseid made a Dark Phoenix entity by combining the dead Jean Greys residual consciousness with energies from the Source in a crossover. There you have a much better case, a case better supported on panel.
Not at all. How can it be canon when it isnt actually stated. The problem i have is that while the Phoenix/God relationship is clearly alluded to on panel people dont acknowledge that or have the guts to admit that in debate, whereas LT has only been stated to work for a being called TOAA and yet people so readily accept him as an agent of God while theres been no support o fsuch a thing on panel. Certainly not as much support as there has been for a Phoenix/God connection.
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A lot of people disagree and mock you all over this forum, you've put your ideas out there if you wish then taken seriously you should let others make up their minds. It's simple trust me no one reads your essays.
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The people im debating with read them and they are the reason i write them in the first place. So its all good my friend.
What people cant disagree with is that there have been allusions to a Phoenix/God relationship. You've admitted so yourself as have many people on these forums. Im not trying to present it as canon i just try and make people admit that fact. Some have the guts to do it some wont for the sake of saving face in debate. (For once that wasnt directed at yourself. )
LT has no stated connection with God therefore such a connection is not canon either.
Mock me? Please Whirly. Im an adult. Like a few people taking the mick about the essay quality of my posts is gonna bother me.
Doesnt stop what im saying from being true. Yes Phoenix is heavily suggested to be an aspect of God and even now has a role in Marvel befitting of one however until its actually stated on panel its not canon. Same goes for LT.
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This is the point GS it's obviously not 100% true, writers interpret characters differently as do readers. You have your view it's not canon. If it was you would not have left for two weeks when the new handbook came out. Yes you have now modified you're ideas and reinterpreter the Handbook. Your interpretation is not canon it's opinion based on two weeks sitting at home crying? It's OK you're an adult, so you temporarily left a comics forum because you thought you'd been clearly proven wrong
Thats cool
Keep the faith
Stay WWWWWWhhhhhhhiiiiiirrrrrllllllyyyyyy
Merry Christmas
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Last edited by Sir Whirlysplat on Dec 23rd, 2005 at 02:39 PM
I left the comic book forums because i had much work to do and a student loan to spend. That handbooks release was the last straw and before i got dragged into another long battle over its interpretation i took it as a chance to leave.
Believe what you want its cool. Doesnt change the fact that as desired another person acknowledges theres a connection alluded to however until its actually stated on panel its not canon. Thats cool. Same goes for LT. So its alllllll good.
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I'll look for the post where you were unhappy with the handbook and said you were leaving! Anyway.......... The connection alluded to is by one writer others have not alluded to it. I'm glad you finally admit it is extrapolation we no longer have an argument then. The handbook tries to mix writers ideas, so it really hedges its bets a little.
Merry Christmas
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Please do my friend. It doesnt contradict with my last post so no worries. As aforementioned the Handbook was the last straw so i left to do some work saying id be back in a few weeks. And here i am.
The connection was alluded to by Chris Claremont the creator of Phoenix, the original interpretation was rife with references. The 86 retcon interpretation focused more on the connection with life and then in the most recent interpretations by Morrison and Pak a god connection was alluded to again. Yeah until its stated on panel its not canon but same goes for LT and that aint held him back none.
Ooooo youre in a festive mood.
Again Merry Xmas
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Last edited by GalacticStorm on Dec 23rd, 2005 at 02:56 PM
Nope, Phoenix Force is a manifestationed entity of The Source in creation that embodies emotion other than intellect in creation trying to save lives or destroy them, so there for its a abstract of The Source used to show its passion to creation. If it was the Source in Jean it wouldn't need to run back to The Source Wall and join The Source again every time its powers are almost gone understand? Some could even say it shouldn't be allowed in creation for its destroying potential life in the future.
Also so are u saying GS that Yahweh would rather talk to the LT and show LT his real form other than talking and showing his real form to umm his 3 more favor sons, The Word, Lucifer and Michael??? Nope Yahweh/The Infinite has never been seen or been heard by anyone which includes the Living Tribunal! He works in ways so nobody would ever really see him. You yourself said nobody has really ever seen or talk to Yahweh so u would have to agree, if u dont then ur ignoring the truth.
Didn't you just have a rant contradicting this entire post? Something along the lines of "Two beings that are based on the same thing are not necessarily equal." Though this is EXACTLY what you base 90% of your Phoenix arguments off of. She didn't create the MU, Reed Richard's will to learn did, with some help from the Cosmic Bunny Thing (CBT for short). LT bowing to Jean was a guess by the Watcher, not actual reality.
The Presence has too been challenged... Great Evil Beast is its equal and opposite. The Source is not actually "God" either. Yahweh is God in his entirety within DC. He has complete control over all of the original Creation, which Lucifer bypassed by making a second Creation... God wasn't defeated, God's system had a loophole.
TOAA has never been seen. (Supreme TOAA, not TOAA the Celestial) All we know is that he's LT's boss, and since nothing short of the HOTU has been shown as more powerful than LT, it's kind of assumed taht TOAA is the most powerful being in Marvel.
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<<Didn't you just have a rant contradicting this entire post? Something along the lines of "Two beings that are based on the same thing are not necessarily equal." Though this is EXACTLY what you base 90% of your Phoenix arguments off of. She didn't create the MU, Reed Richard's will to learn did, with some help from the Cosmic Bunny Thing (CBT for short). LT bowing to Jean was a guess by the Watcher, not actual reality.>>
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Dec 23rd, 2005 02:12 PM
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Nope, Phoenix Force is a manifestationed entity of The Source in creation that embodies emotion other than intellect in creation trying to save lives or destroy them, so there for its a abstract of The Source used to show its passion to creation. If it was the Source in Jean it wouldn't need to run back to The Source Wall and join The Source again every time its powers are almost gone understand? Some could even say it shouldn't be allowed in creation for its destroying potential life in the future.
Merry Christmas guys 
