Gender: Male Location: The sewers of the Big City!
Advantages:
Weapons: Taki of course, and she's constantly fighting skilled armed opponents. Plus she's skilled with a blade.
Speed: Same
Strength: Same
Durability: Both fall from heights
Ninpo: Taki, since she can use it in a fight
Win Record: Ayane has beaten: Hayate, Kasumi, and Genra but she lost to Kasumi, Raidoh, and Doku.
Win record: Taki has beaten: Toki possessed by demons, Cerventes (He may have been weakened, but he was still strong), Fu-Ma ninja's, and a demon that escaped from a shrine.
She's never lost
This fight includes weapons, and who's good with weapons?
Plus Taki has an enchanted sword that can cut through demons.
Taki: 8/10 too many advantages
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Last edited by Classic NES on Jul 26th, 2007 at 07:11 PM
No, I am not kidding you. When did I say that wouldn't hurt Ayane? I'll address this in separate points. There are multiple reasons why this won't help with Ayane.
1. As you can see in more than one of Taki's battles with demons, her ninpo appears to have a binding effect on demons. In the video you post, the demon already stood there like an idiot and is clearly immobilized in pain before the explosion even occurs. In another Soul Caliber installment, Taki is attacked by a demon while she was repairing Mekki Maru. She casted a spell that literally took control of the demon phsyically and forced him into his grave.
2. Even though Taki's spells obviously cast much faster than Ayane's, they still have a startup time. When Ayane sees Taki begin any sort of pose for ninpo, it won't take much effort to simply launch a kunai to her head. Again, Taki is good so she will probably block it. However, she'll be wary of attempting that again.
3. Ayane can teleport and null the entire ninpo spell altogether. Taki would just be wasting energy then and would again be wary of doing. Especially considering Ayane could launch a kunai from an undisclosed location.
Summary: As you may have noticed, I didn't really bring up either combatants ninpo up many times. Both of there spells will be useless unless used as finishers. Ayane's is too slow for this battle, Taki doesn't have a guaranteed way to actually hit Ayane with hers. It's quite logical actually.
You don't need to bring up Taki's victories. I brought up Taki's fights already.
1. Victories against canon fodder ninja.
2. Demons which she dispelled with ninpo. Something I that won't really help with Ayane unless she suddenly becomes a quadruplegic in the fight.
3. I am pretty sure she has never beaten Mitsurugi.
4. Cervantes: Here is the fight that would have helped Taki. Unfortunately, Sophitia is the one who broke Soul Edge and fought Cervantes at full power. Taki just jumped in after Cervantes fought 2 other people in a row. Strangely enough, Ayane has actually defeated the same number of opponents back to back. Her opponents were also high level.
The problem with Taki's fights is that they only prove what we already know. Taki has better skills with her weapons than Ayane. Great. Noone was debating that.
I didn't say Kasumi does everything on a higher level. Obviously, demonslaying goes to Taki.
Yes, technique helps. Still dude, Ayane throws that stuff rock on mountains. It's a bit different than the stunts pulled off real time.
I said Taki would deflect it. She just won't try teleporting again after it. We should drop the issue of Taki's teleport honestly. We both know it won't help, and it just adds typing to the post that we don't need.
Actually, Ayane still has the advantage. Canon fodder is dumb to use. If you want to go there, then Ayane killed like 20 soldiers at once. I don't really want to use that because they were canon fodder though. I don't believe she's actually beaten Mitsurugi. Cervantes was pretty much beaten before she got there. When Taki gets more legit wins over higher level people, then she can claim some manner of equality here.
I highly doubt you'd admit to it if you did. Fine. I'll drop this. It was just an obersavation. No point in still running over it seriously.
I didn't make it seem light she dodged. I said that that is virtually the only option left. If you're asking why no fire was on her, well that would obviously be her possible resistance to it at work. The ground she's standing on is burnt, so she obviously took some measure to avoid it. I didn't see her move, so I'm chalking it up to durability. Unless of course you want her to have super speed.
I'm not hyping her up. I've given Taki credit for everything she has.
I understand what you mean. Unlike Sandai, I actually see this as a close fight. I'm giving credit to Taki's abilities and even giving her the benefit of the doubt in many instances. He claims he isn't underrating Ayane, yet he gives Taki an 8/10. I don't even give Ayane that much in this one.
Yeah. It'd be cool if he got some of his spells too.
Fixed.
Last edited by StyleTime on Jul 27th, 2007 at 04:49 PM
Gender: Male Location: The sewers of the Big City!
You just stated that her demon arts are mostly mean't for sealing. Furthermore, you claimed that they are not made for fighting against humans. I'm waiting for you to verify this.
That's your conjecture, for all we know she could have fubared him beforehand. Also, Taki's profiles specifically state that she destroys demons and never mentions anything about binding them. Infact, Rekkimaru has the ability to cleave demons and immortal spirits.
Please post proof of this event, because nowhere in Soul Blade has it ever stated that Taki has sealed demons.
Not true, when Taki was fighting Ivy she sent fragments of her blades that tracked Taki's moements. She managed to counter with her gauntlets and execute the ninpo. It only takes 1 and quater of a second to execute that Ninpo. That's not long Styles.
Kunia's won't save her, if Taki takes an offense. Also, where will Ayane teleport too if the ninpo can effect the area because as soon as she vanishes she will appear somewhere in the arena. Furthermore, who say's she'll betired form performing Ninpo's, and if she can get tired from that then Ayane can get tired from Teleporting.
Ayane cannot dodge a ninpo indefinetly, that's a ridiculous assertion. Furthermore if Taki telegraphs her Teleport she could counter with a ninpo. Since her ninpo's are actually fast enough to use in battles. Seriously, you believe a Kunai can stop her from using a ninpo when fragments of Ivy's balde that could lock onto a rival could not?
I brought them up because you claimed Ayane has a better win record.
1. Still more than Ayane, which was the focus of your argument I.E. that Ayane has more wins
2. Differrent Ninpo mane, because I'm taking about the ninpo she used on IVY.
First of all, I already now he was weakened and that doesn't change what I said. She has won more battles, and second of all his power was only cut in half since Sophitia just destroyed one blade. He wasn't tired from fighting since he dominated in the fight.
How good Kasumi is irrelavant to Ayane, because beating someone doesn't transfer their skill on to you. Plus we do not even know the conditions of the fight, it's not like we know that Kasumi was fighting with her blade at full power same with Hayate. The only person that was fighting with a weapons was genra and he did not display any skill with it.
The only difference is the distance.
Ayane, simply blew up the bridge that the soldiers were on, she did not engage them in battle. . .Hayate did.
Also, High quality opponents does not change experience mane.
And that's False Dictonomy
Like I said before, what happened to the fire that was around her? When she first confronts Genra, he surrounds the place in fire. He even surrounds her with fire. Personally, I think it's a camera trick, but for the sake of argument let's accept you version. She's supposedly on fire. When the match starts, there is no fire near her or Genra, so what happened to the fire that was on Ayane?
In her ending as well the fire around her is gone except for a flame in front of her which is most likely Genra. So, where is the fire that burnt her? If she was immersed in fire, what happened to it at the start of the match?
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Last edited by Classic NES on Jul 27th, 2007 at 05:13 PM
Gender: Male Location: The sewers of the Big City!
Just because I disagree, this mean I'm underrating her. Not one person has said anything that underrates her in this versus. You on the other hand keep claiming she can withstand fires and jump from the Tri-Towers. Stop whinning, mane.
I have something to settle the ludicrous claim that Ayane survived that fire from Genra. Let's say that she is immune to fire, why didn't her clothes burn off?
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I said that muh of her experience is slaying demons. I mentioned how some of her ninpo had a binding effect on demons. I never said any destructive effect wouldn't take place on a human.
He so blatantly just took a fighting stance when they showed Taki and the demon. He just stood there, before being bound.
I really don't feel like searching around youtube for the video. It's her ending scene for Soul Caliber 1. She was repairing her sword when the thing came at her. It's funny how you asked me if I knew her feats, yet you don't appear to know what I'm talking about. I'll look it up tomorrow if you really don't believe me.
Yes, Ivy threw the things at Taki. She didn't wait for Taki to cast then interupt her. She just threw them. Taki had the perfect opportunity to that. That was not how I said Ayane could use her kunai.
Kunai will stop the move and Taki if she doesn't react accordingly. I didn't say Taki would tire. I apologize. I guess I should have used different wording. When I said it would be a "waste", I meant that it would literally be for naught. I wasn't saying that Taki would be loosing anything.
It doesn't matter if Taki telegraphs a teleport or ninpo. If she poses at all, it's a kunai to the skull. Had Ivy had actually launched her assault when Taki was posing instead of just doing it for the hell of it, the outcome would be different. She launched her weapon at a fully capable, non charging Taki. I've never advocated that method of attack for Ayane.
....Ayane still has the better win record. My argument also accounted for the actual level the competition was on. If we're just talking numbers, Ayane has that too.
The problem with having your sword broken when you use a dual weapon style is that you are no longer fighting with two swords. Not only was he weaker, but he is facing a skilled opponent while using a style he doesn't normally fight with. Taki had that fight stacked in her favor.
I never claimed it transfered skill to you. I didn't even bring up Kasumi or Hayate for weapons.
So....Ayane is stronger. Great.
Not the point. You were so determined on using quantity over quality that I brought them up to help show why that doesn't help.
Actually, quality would change experience bit. Defeating amateurs all day won't make you high level. Fighting and defeating high level opponent will though.
If you recall, I still think it was some manner of force blast. I never said she was on fire.
Even still, the fire that would be present by the time the match starts has already incinerated everything. It won't burn on dirt so it dies out.
She is in the center of the explosion of the ninpo in DOA4 that vaoprized people. It's not unreasonable to say her clothes would be resistant to heat/fire in that case.
Last edited by StyleTime on Jul 28th, 2007 at 06:53 AM
Gender: Male Location: The sewers of the Big City!
Yes, And I'm still waiting for you to provide proof of this "binding effect"
Which is what I said in the first place. Futhermore, even if she did bind demons I'm talking about the ninpo she used against Ivy. That had nothing to do with binding or sealing, and like I said she kills demons because Rekkamaru has the ability to slice demons. The binding argument doesn't change the fact that she still has killed demons and said strategy's would work against humans. You claimed her demon slaying skills wouldn't help her in this fight because she uses it to seal demons. Like I said, it would help her because she kills them as well in the same way she kills humans.
Your wrong, look at the video again:
Taki is doing sevearl things
1. She's counter the blades again with her ninpo, because Ivy launched them a second time. If you look at the video you clearly see the blades being deflected by Taki's ninpo. That means she can use it as a counter.
2. She starts the ninpo at 1.45 into the video and the ninpo activates 1.46 into the video. Are you telling me that Ayane can interrupt a ninpo that takes 1 second to start up?
That is false, look at the video again at 1.47-1.49 and you'll see that she launches it for a second time only to have it defelected by Taki's ninpo. You can see that when the blades hit the ninpo they are deflected.
Ayane's only one three of her bouts and they are not really applicable to this match. Reason being is:
1. She's fighting opponents that are not trying to kill her, but win a match over her( except Genra). Versus this match, which is to the death most likely.
2. The opponent's were not armed (Except genra who does not display any skill with the blade)
3. All of Taki's fights are weapon duals to death, and she ahs the advantage here.
Soul Edge is a supernatural blade, and the number is irrelavant because it still possess power. regardless if one of the blades is destroyed.
My dude, this is a weapons duel. What advantage does fighting in a unarmed match help against an armed opponent who is very skilled in the blade and has experience over her?
Kasumi and Hayate were not trying to kill her, because if they were they would have used their weapons.
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Last edited by Classic NES on Jul 28th, 2007 at 07:23 PM
Gender: Male Location: The sewers of the Big City!
I wasn't determined to use anything because it should be obvious that in this particular match Taki's experience comes more to play as I explained. She's fought opponents in death duels while wielding weapons and won. Ayane has only done such a thing once against Genra who isn't even that impressive with his blade.
There was no blast, all he did was raise his hand and the fire started. Futhermore, there is dirt all over the place and yet the ground is still ablaze in many parts except where Ayane and Genra are. Also, how could the fire die out in one second, because as soon as the match starts the fire is gone. Nevermind that the fire inb other dirt spots are burning fine.
She ran away from the blast with Hayate.
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Last edited by Classic NES on Jul 28th, 2007 at 07:45 PM
I told you where the information originate from and you already found the video. As for her demonslaying stuff not helping, I'm also talking about how the demons were rarely ever attacking her. It's usually Taki just ninpoing the demon to hell.
I'm not wrong about the Ivy scenario. She launched and Taki deflected them then charged a ninpo. I'm saying that Ayane could launch the kunai during Taki's posing. Ivy's blade pieces had to travel back to Ivy before she could relaunch them. Of course Taki could do the ninpo in that situation.
Not trying to kill her? You of all people know that this is sounding like "there are no mats on the street" type of deal. Even if they didn't desire Ayane's death, a defeat would indeed put them in the position to kill her if they wanted.
Kasumi and Hayate still had similar attributes to Taki and sometimes better attributes. It's not like Taki is going to be able to pull out something Ayane hasn't dealt with before.
That still only serves to give Taki the nod in weapon skills. I've admitted that already.
I'm just talking about power here. He was fighting with a single blade when his style involves two blades. He also just fought two people prior to Taki. That fight was really a best case scenario for Taki.
Dealing with opponents that are both faster, stronger, and have better teleports than Taki will help Ayane. Not to mention, much like Cervantes, Ayane fought these guys in succession.
....She defeated one opponent worth anything in a death after he was weakened by two other combatants. I honestly think their experience is going to begin evening out somewhere.
Truthfully, I'm playing devil's advocate with the Genra thing. I admitted it was debatable and that's why I bring it up. I want to actually find some kind of explanation for it. There are some questions that need answering on both sides. We do know that something happened as the field is so blatantly leveled and charred. What exactly are you suggesting occurred?
No, she punches the ground and they are in the midst of it. They are outrunning the explosion by the end of the video.
I never said she couldn't kill it with Mekkimaru. I just stated that some of her ninpo has a some kind of binding effect of demons. It was non-canon, but so is a lot of the stuff brought up here actually. The non-canon things are just used for abilities. If you want to take them out, both arguments will need some serious reworking.
Sorry it took so long to reply. My network is currently ****ed up. I am using someone else's computer right now. Until I get around to getting this sorted out, my posts will be rather infrequent for a little while.
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Jul 26th, 2007 06:57 PM
