I am not sure, but I am pretty sure it would at the very least be an excellent fight whoever wins. Throw in Cognus and I think Vader's in major trouble.
Cognus is not going to be much help. She is a non-factor. Vader would crush her with the force alone, and then go on defeat Zannah after a decent fight. Zannah's mastery in sorcery would probably give Vader major trouble, but Vader's strength in the force is just too much IMO. He would overwhelm her with his TK.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
You're acting like Vader will be taking them on individually. If Vader attacks Cognus with the force, then Zannah will take advantage of that to strike at him and gain an advantage, probably a significant one.
You're acting like Zannah is going to speed blitz Vader in the second it would take for him to take Cognus out of the fight. There is going to be some distance between them before the fight begins and Vader will use that as opportunity to take Cognus out of the fight before it even begins.
After Vader defeats Zannah, he helps Sidious to easily destroy Bane, if Sidious hasn't already.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Unless Zannah blocks attempts to take Cognus out with the force while they're closing, or does a force attack of her own so that Vader has a choice between taking out Cognus and defending.
Again, you're ignoring teamwork. It does not take a speed blitz for Zannah to take advantage of Cognus on her side. It just takes fighting together. Cognus is not going to attack on her own to get slaughtered.
Zannah barely has enough power to shield herself from a TK attack from Vader. There is nothing she can do to stop Vader from crushing Cognus. All it would take is a second worth of opportunity to take Cognus out of the fight. It doesn't matter how well they can fight as a team when Vader can easily disable Cognus.
Zannah's best bet would be to try and keep herself from getting overwhelmed by Vader's superior raw power and strength in the force, and to use her advantage of sith sorcery to try and defeat Vader.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
If she can shield herself, she can shield someone else or use the one second opportunity of Vader focusing entirely on someone else to attack. Nor do I think one second is going to be enough to take her out unless she gets in saber range. Cognus isn't as useless as you make her out to the best of my knowledge.
If it was solo and Vader could focus on her, yes. However, all Cognus has to do is provide Zannah an opening, with her life if need be. And it's two on one (or three on two rather), meaning the two are the ones who are going to be able to call the pairings.
If she stays back, behind Zannah, and uses her powers on Vader mid-fight, it strikes me Vader is likely to find himself in trouble.
For a couple of reasons, this is not a battle Sidious and Vader can win:
A. Undeniable movie canon tells us Vader has no defense against Sith Lightning. Dark Lord gave us further canon dialogue stating Vader knew Sidious could short-circuit his armor and kill him anytime he felt like it. Either Zannah or Bane should be able to take him out in an instant, with Bane being incredibly proficient at it...What's Sidious going to do against the 3 of them?
B. Locale - Vjun is a planet with a long intertwined history with the dark side. This is a major factor because Zannah, who most of you seem to vastly underestimate, has a canon feat that gives her an advantage on any world steeped in the Darkside:
"Somehow, Zannah had given substance and corporeality to the dark side, transforming it into half a dozen shadowy, serpentlike minions rising from the ground." (Dynasty of Evil, p. 298)
The book goes on to say how just the tip of one of the tentacles touched Bane's shoulder, dissolving the flesh on contact and sending him, a Dark Lord of the Sith, into shock. Neither Sidious nor Vader would have an answer for the tentacles...Sith Sorcery ftw.
C. Why are we assuming Vader automatically knows he needs to take out the Iktotchi? Q99 already gave us a scenario showing her worth, so I won't waste my breath.
Furthermore, while Sidious is more powerful than Bane, moreso in Force ability, the orbalisks give Bane a combat advantage that borders on spite in a 1:1 match with Sidious, which is how most of you see this playing out.
Lastly, Zannah being "crushed" by Vader and "barely" holding her own in this fight is laughable.
"Zannah's best bet would be to try and keep herself from getting overwhelmed by Vader's superior raw power and strength in the force, and to use her advantage of sith sorcery to try and defeat Vader."
True, Sith Sorcery is her best shot, but she's been stated by Bane himself to be his equal in the dark side. For all we know, after losing all 4 of his natural limbs between Geonosis and Mustafar, Vader's not much more powerful than Zannah. In addition, her lightsaber defense is stated to be inpenetrable...the only other person I've read to receive similar compliments is Obi-Wan. Vader doesn't fare well against this level of defense...
__________________ I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species that I realized you aren't actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with its surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply, and multiply until every natural resource is consumed. And the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague, and we...are the cure.
Yep, the movie shows us that Vader can't block lightning when he is hauling a Sith Lord over his head with one hand... Not to mention Sidious's lightning is arguably more impressive than Bane's and far more impressive than Zannah's (in fact I don't recall her ever evan using it)...
Except in that case the dark forces on the planet were uniquely locked away. Not to mention these dark forces were strong enough to wipe out nearly all life on the planet... Yeah, somehow I doubt Zannah is going to be able to use that move here.
Yeah they do... It's called killing Zannah. Not to mention these tendrils, if I'm not mistaken, aren't shown to pierce inorganic material meaning they would be ineffective against Vader. And once again there is no reason to believe she can use them here.
Lol what? Bane with Orbalisks is good but not invincible. Four Jedi were able to take him out and only two of those were really any use in combat. No way is it spite.
I really don't see much of a chance for Zannah. Vader has insane feats such as shaking the entire Jedi Temple, overloading lightsabers, and using the DS to reduce people to ash. He may not "crush" her but he should win solidly.
Which, going by feats, is untrue. Bane was able to hold her back merely with his lightning. Her only chance to beat Bane was using her dues ex machina powers on Ambria.
Vader has far better feats... So we do know that he is much more powerful.
Last edited by ares834 on Jun 26th, 2011 at 04:52 AM
Huh? She doesn't need to be in lightsaber range for Vader to take her out of the fight. And Zannah is not powerful enough to shield both herself and Cognus at the same time from someone as powerful as Vader. Vader is one of the most powerful sith in the entire mythos. Zannah would be very stupid to divert her force defenses on Cognus.
One second is not enough for Zannah to do any real damage to Vader especially if there is distance between them, unless you're saying Zannah will blitz Vader, which I highly doubt.
And it doesn't matter how they are paired. Cognus is a non-factor for Sidious or Vader.
Seriously?
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Last edited by Dominis on Jun 26th, 2011 at 05:08 AM
Provided Bane can hit him with a full blast of Sith Lightning I see no reason to oppose this. Whether he could is another matter. He is extremely powerful. Though oddly enough he was unable to block Mareks Sith Lightning. Since Bane's is demonstratably superior I'd say that he woldn't.
x2 combo!
People shouldn't underestimate Zannah. She has really good feats. I'd put her at about Vaders level of overall power andskill, but the tentacles will finish him imo. He isn't nearly agile enough to evade them.
Cognus only appears as an untrained apprentice. She doesn't even know how to weild a lightsaber. She's not doing much imo.
Oh noes Sids vs Bane debate everyone run awaaaaaay!
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Bane'd win.
Again, Zannah is not to be underestimated. She did beat Bane after all.
But her defence was penetrated by Bane through sheer power in ROT and was likewise ineffective against the Jedi she fought. Given the praise Vaders raw strength is given in TFU and other sources, I'd say he would get through it.
She can shield herself from a planet-wide Force Storm as an untrained child but not Vader? Yeah, no.
Force Tentacles of ikky penetration say otherwise.
Her Force blunting powers were enough to make Bane pause. They'll be a definate distraction, enough for Zannah to lay down a whoopin' on his ass.
__________________
Last edited by Nephthys on Jun 26th, 2011 at 10:12 AM
It being locked away in fact shows that she can use it. If all the darkside was locked away in Lake Nath, and Zannah drew the power for her tentacles 'from the soil and stone of Ambria itself' she wasn't drawing on the planet-wiping power.
'The material of his clothes melted away as if it had been splashed with acid. A chunk of flesh beneath simply dissolved, and Bane screamed in agony.'
I agree that its not spite, but don't diminish Bane because of that fight.
Zannah has replicated those feats.
Quote for the ash part?
'Merely with his lightning?' As opposed to what, his dick?
Also, quote?
No he doesn't and no we don't. Zannah defeated Bane people. Stop underestimating her.
__________________
Last edited by Nephthys on Jun 26th, 2011 at 10:37 AM
Jun 21st, 2011 11:54 PM
