Matukai, The 2nd Most Powerful Lightside Force organization
Distinguished as the best martial artists in the galaxys, the matukai made their own bodies the focus of their abilities, and were capable of using physical exercise and discipline as a form of meditation. Keeping their focus inward, Matukai philosophy differed from that of the jedi order in that the jedi saw physical exercise & meditation as separate; however, this inward focus allowed Matukai adherents such a degree of control over their bodies as to develop an otherwise negligible connection to the force into a far more significant source of strength
considered to be masters of their physical bodies, the matukai were capable of drawing on the force to strengthen and augment their bodies to unnatural limits. In doing this they could refresh their spirits with a tireless energy that allowed them to exert their bodies far past their unaided physical limits for hours at a time without tiring. Because of this stamina, Matukai were capable of executing physical feats such as tumbling, running, leaping, and complex martial sequences with a astonishing speed described as a "whirlwind" blur of limbs and movement, additionally, this refreshing of spirit augmented the strength and resolve of a matukai's blows, allowing them feats of strength and power far exceeding what their bodies were capable of.
In addition to this outward physical mastery, matukai were known for their inward mastery and self-awareness of their own bodies. and were able to discern wounds, injuries, and sickness with ease. The Matukai learned to purge illness and poison from their bodies, and even become immune to them altogether, to the point where a fully-trained matukai could shrug off the effects or a normally-fatal sting from a poisonous Kouhun. Trained matukai could also raise or lower their body's temperature to survive in hot or cold environments, or even cause their skin to become so hot as to burn anything that they touched. More experienced Matukai adepts could also give normally soft parts of their body unnatural rigidity to help drastically reduce the physical damage they took and would recieve.
The signature weapon of the matukai was a polearm weapon called the wan-shan, which was tipped on one end with a short-singled edged blade. Each wan-shan was unique and bore patterns etched into the blade to symbolize things important to its creator. Most wan-shans could be broken down into easily-stored pieces, and trained matukai users could whirl it around their bodies in combat, using themselfs as a central axis of rotation. Due to their own physical control, Matukai were capable of wielding the blade with a speed that sometimes astonished onlookers, which was described as a virtual whirlwind of metal and blades. As such, they were considered very powerful combatants with weapons in addition to hand-to-hand combat. Matukai saw the weapon as an external focus for the force, as well as a means of self-defense. The Matukai were agile to the point of being able to dodge or a sizable portion of incoming strikes or blaster shots aimed at them , and enjoyed greatly increased balance and stamina due to their connection to the force. The Matukai order were also known for their adaptability to any situation.
Last edited by Star Wars Logic on Jan 19th, 2013 at 05:07 AM
Is this keeping in with your opinion that the Zeison Sha are the most powerful group of light side force sensitives? And thus the Jedi are even weaker than the Matukai?
Or have you accepted that the Jedi are stronger than the Zeison Sha, and you're now merely floundering around for a new group to champion?
No im not floundering around for a new group to deem champions. The Zeison Sha Elite Warriors are the most powerful telekinetic force users since they are unparalleled in telekinetic force powers. The Matukai Master adepts are the most overpowering physical body. And the Jal Shey Mentors are the most intelligent beings in the universe. (It was even said that the Jal Shey Mentors are unparalleled in intellect)
The Matukai order are more powerful then the jedi physically and in mindset. The Zeison Sha are telekinetically superior to the Jedi order. And the Jal shey are the most intellectual minds in the universe, unlike the Jedi. And the Jedi are the most powerful spiritually compared to all other orders and seem to be the most balanced, but not the most powerful.
Last edited by Star Wars Logic on Jan 22nd, 2013 at 12:52 AM
So you place them above the Zeison Sha and below Jedi? Personally I'd put them lower than the Zeison Sha, they are a smaller organization.
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Seriously, it's hard to take you seriously when you just read something, see "Hey, they're really good in one area! That MUST mean they're more powerful than the ones who're more well-rounded and have a larger recruitment base!", and then object when everyone points out it is speculation.
No, focusing on one area does not make a group superior in mindset. It makes them focused, nothing more and nothing less.
No they didn't, we often see Jedi physically exercising while meditating.
You assume, but this isn't based on any statements or facts. Fact is, Jedi have the highest feats, and nothing says they neglect the physical side or non-spiritual areas. That's just you making stuff up.
Also, there's many areas of the force. The Jedi are better than the Zeison Sha physically and in precognition and in sword skills. The Jedi are better than the Matukai at telekinesis and precognition.
The Jedi are not weak in any of these areas and many Jedi focus heavily on telekinesis, martial arts, or what have you.
When are you going to realize you making something up doesn't qualify as real feats, and saying that it does is just lying? It's not close-minded to note something's made up.
You have your own personal interpretation of the Jedi and the force. It is not canon, and stop trying to pretend to everyone that it is. If you want to talk about the various other factions and how they compare, fine, but you can do so in a less obnoxious way.
I don't have a personal interpretation of anything, and why are you mentioning close-minded?
You misunderstand me once again. I NEVER said that the Matukai were more powerful then the Zeison Sha, The Zeison Sha are the most powerful order of lightside Force Sensitives, since their elite warriors can crush the bodys of the opposition within seconds after entering combat. The Matukai are stronger in the mindset of straying true to the lightside, keeping one's self pure. (There have been no matukai who fell to the dark side since its founding before 4,000 BBY. same thing can't be said about the jedi)
(Just because i put more detail into the Matukai order does not mean that i have changed what i have said, don't make another misconception before you attempt to understand something, you look too much with your eyes and not with your mind but i wouldn't expect anything less due to the fact that you and your way of thinking were brought up by the educational system's prognosticators)
The Matukai are the most powerful order physically and their abilities are living proof of that. The jedi are not the most powerful all around, the jedi wanted to understand and use the force on a spiritual level using the force as a ally, not attempting to bend the force to their will (such as what the Sith philosophy is about) The jedi order is a balanced spiritual order, and the many refferences made by jedi masters is prove of that such as, (Trust in the force it will lead you to great things)
The jedi are a single piece of the force capabilities puzzle. The Matukai are the physical piece. The Zeison Sha are the telekinetic piece. The Jedi are the spiritual piece. And the Jal Shey are the intellectual piece.
The jedi are not the most powerful all around and there's nothing you can say or do to change that fact even though you've read the Star Wars comic books that are heavily focused on jedi notables, for as long as you can remember. The Jedi order are the most balanced due to the multitude of areas they teach in, but at the same time they are flawed and unbalanced due to the fact that they say the path to the dark side only leads to destruction, which in many cases that turns out to be a contradiction. For one to achieve true balance, one must know both the Light and the Dark, not just the light and not the Dark, and vise versa. If you really want to say who are the best balance of an order that would be the Gray Je,daii.
Last edited by Star Wars Logic on Jan 22nd, 2013 at 09:01 AM
But you don't get it. For the Matukai and the Zeison Sha to be considered more powerful force organisations than the Jedi, they have to show at least a high profiency in abilities other than their specialties, their physical or telekinesis abilities respectively.
By the way, what evidence do you have of their abilities? You can't just spout random aspects of the Matukai and expect us to take your words as the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
From "your" perspective maybe, TO YOU they aren't more powerful then the jedi because you haven't paid any attention to them nor saw them commonly in the Star Wars flims and the books. Everything of what i have said has been mentioned in (Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential guide to the Force) (The Jedi Academy Training Manual) (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia) and (The Jedi Path A Manual for Students of the Force) provided with the fact that the full explaination conserning the Matukai is on Wookieepedia.
The Matukai's Philosophy & physical abilities deems them more powerful then the Jedi due to 2 of 4 reasons. Reason number 1 is a Matukai adept can never run out of stamina nor strength during or out of combat, Infact a Matukai adept continually increases in Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, and Spiritual Power without limit using their unique technique known as Refreshing of the Spirit, Also Matukai adepts cannot be affect by any poisions of all kinds even of they are fatal or of the most deadly manufactured. Reason Number 2 is the Matukai's adept's fighting skills have been described as a virtual whirlwind of metal and blades (meaning that their physical attacks were too fast for the eye to focus and keep track of while their strength being just as efficient as their speed) and since whirlwind is short for miniature tornado, that means that anyone fighting a Matukai Adept in close quaters combat will be torn to shreds since thats what a whirlwind does.
the Matukai adepts would be close to physical invincibility if they decided to use Lightsabers rather then the Wan-Shan. A virtual whirlwind of Lightsabers would be a more efficient way of establishing victory, rather then a whirlwind of metal and blades from the polearm weapon (Wan-Shan)
Last edited by Star Wars Logic on Jan 22nd, 2013 at 11:20 AM
They already are ignoring me, they haven't read the first post which is living proof of their physical abilities taken straight from wookieepedia and other sources, and yet they are asking me to provide evidence of their abilities even though the proof of their physical abilities has already been provided.
You only provide small pieces, and even then it's not actual solid evidence. You call those who don't 'listen' closet minded when you actually do the same yourself.
It is solid evidence but all of you choose it not to be, due to the fact that i mentioned the group stated being the most powerful in that area. Another thing is i haven't used the words Close-minded since the beginning of the Zeison Sha thread which was the Fall of 2012 on December the 17th, you guys are telling on yourselfs by stating that i have repeatedly called people close-minded when that turn out to be false, it was only 3 times. But according to this reply of yours the things i have previously said about you and everyone else being close-minded and biased is turning out to be true.
Q99 is close-minded & biased conserning the Jedi and he/she proved that to be a fact when he/she stated that, the Jedi use physical exercise & discipline as a form of meditation Maybe Q99 misunderstood my sentence
(I didn't say the jedi never exercise and meditate, i said that the Jedi have NEVER used PHYSICAL EXERCISE & DISCIPLINE as a form of meditation but visa versa.
(The Matukai use that method since it was a conerstone in the Matukai philosophy being balanced between the physical and the spiritual and used physical exercise and discipline as a form of meditation. The jedi order have neve done this and Wookieepedia proved that to be a fact)
But Q99 easily turned that into a misconception due to the fact that She/He only reads the parts he/she dosen't like and reply to accordingly, not attempting to understand something if it contradicts what he/she believed to be true, to Q99 and as well as YOU your Eyes are the ONLY etched-in-stone evidence.
Last edited by Star Wars Logic on Jan 24th, 2013 at 01:47 AM
Sorry, you making stuff up or misinterpreting/exaggerating stuff from wookkiepedia is never going to be strong evidence.
Even if we bought it, which we don't have a reason to do, it still wouldn't be strong evidence, that'd just make us wrong too.
You're just stuck on your ideas and reject disagreement.
Remember the time in the Claymore thread when you were so sure the series had gone horrible because a character had been reincarnated as a child, and it turned out that it was just a flashback to when the character was a child, yet you had to be told about half a dozen times that it wasn't true before you stopped arguing? Even though everyone else in the thread had read the series and knew exactly what was and wasn't in the series, you didn't pay any attention to what other people were saying or knew, you were just *sure* you were right, and you weren't.
Oh yes, and the biggest flaw in your arguments: You keep assuming the Jedi and Sith neglect the physical side and are overly-specialized on the spiritual.
The Baran Do and Sorcerers of Tund are examples of that. It looks a heck of a lot different than the Jedi/Sith's often heavy physical-centric and much more balanced approach.
First im going to destroy your arguement conserning the Claymore thread and this Matukai thread. I purposely posted the thing about Teresa being reincarnated through a different form to see the 1st person that will blindly choose to disagree and to see which people held a dislike against me, since it regards that im the one that was saying it, and with no surprise Q99 was the first to disagree without question, since you have what seems to be a rivalry against me for some odd reason, you fell right into the trap and now i know with a certainty that you are the one of the people who will disagree with me in any given subject that does not support your opinion.
And Conserning the Jedi (Dark & Light) being Spiritual orders this is a fact, and it was proven when Nomi Sunrider stripped Ulic Qel-Droma of his connection to the force, afterwards he could not use any of the seemingly telekinetic capabilities that most jedi Dark & Light were capable of, such as lifting up objects and throwing them without physically making contact, nor could he use any of the Dark side's techniques such as Lightning, draining, or crushing someone with power alone, why? because his connection to the force was cut which was his connection to his spirit. (The FORCE is a spiritual connection to something that can be seen and used as something much greater or much more dangerous)
1 last thing that proves the jedi do not use nor specialize in other areas besides the spirit, is none other then Meetra Surik. When Meetra Surik cut herself from the force, she could not lift up, push, or pull objects with telekinesis untill her connection to the force was re-established. Because the jedi do not use telekinesis but rather they use the Force for such things which they channeled through the spirit not through the Mind. Nor do the Jedi use the force to channel one's own body, such as what the Matukai order are the most proficient & powerful at. Wookieepedia is solid evidence since they both explain and take you to the refferences that prove what the Matukai are capable of, which also indirectly states that the Matukai are the most powerful in the physical area. Balanced in the Spiritual and perfect in the Mindset of staying true to the Light Side.
But since you won't look for the answers yourself by viewing the refferences & sources on wookieepedia that reveals their physical dominance compared to all other orders, that proves that you don't want the evidence nor answers, nor will i waste my time giving them.
Case closed and since you have disagreements about this being said, keep them to yourself since they are biased not factual
Last edited by Star Wars Logic on Jan 30th, 2013 at 10:40 PM
Did you randomly put 2 orders that sounded something of interest and seemed balanced? because the Baran Do were the most proficient at using the force to see the future, and the things that could be done to avoid the bad outcomes it may have, which is why the Baran Do served as Sages and respected advisors, (Not Soldiers Nor powerful combatants) they also trained in telekinesis which lead to some of their members beng powerful in it, but they were carted off by the Jedi order. Also Baran Do trained in using martial arts and the basic staff, which they were most weakest in, not of a balance.
The Baran Do's strong-points were using the force to amplify one's senses, and using the force for telekinesis, their weakness is physical skills and the body.
The Sorcerers of Tund were nothing more then Sorcerers that specialized in using Dark Side illusions, not even close to achieving a balance between the body, mind, and spirit. Don't start linking and ranting on about orders you don't even know about.
Last edited by Star Wars Logic on Jan 30th, 2013 at 11:07 PM
Isn't that what we've pointed out about both the Zeison Sha and the Matukai though? They have their strengths, sure, but what prevents them from being at the top of the list is that they're specialists, pure and simple. You can't make excuses for one organisation, and then completely disregard us when we employ the same argument against the organisations that you champion. It's just hypocritical.
Despite what you claim, Jedi don't just focus on the spiritual side. Many dedicate themselves to lightsaber duelling, diplomacy, etc. They're not an order you can place seamlessly into one particular aspect of the force.
Its not hypocritical, don't misunderstand when you see the words (Strong-points)
The Barran Do aren't specialist at what they do but rather proficient to a certin degree. The Matukai are the most powerful at using the force to channel the body, and them being known for never running out of stamina while gaining continual physical Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, and spiritual power without limit are proof of that, provided that they were known as combat whirlwinds & typhoons.
Basically the Matukai adepts broke the physical & spiritual capabilities limit that their bodies originally had and wookieepedia proves that.
The Zeison Sha's Elite Warriors were unparalelled in Telekinesis and other Telekinetic force Powers, to the point to where they stood as prime examples to the already unmatched masters of telekinetics the lower ranked Zeison Sha Warriors. Zeison Sha Elite Warriors can crush someone's body within seconds either using their mind, or using the power of the force. The Zeison Sha order have many more feats & proficiencies but i have already described them so repeating them would be a waste of time. The Zeison Sha are the Most Powerful Light Side Force Organization.
And as for what you say about the Jedi not Neglecting the physical side, im not about to explain why again on this thread, go to the Matukai thread i have posted, the new reply i have posted there explains why the jedi have grown weak physically without me wasting the time repeating the same thing.
Another thing i forgot to mention was. I looked at the Zeison Sha article, Matukai article, and Marka Ragnos article from time-to-time for 3 years nothing tampered with during that time, but when i posted subjects conserning those names being the most powerful in specific areas on this site, thats when the changes in the article's literature began to show, and by you being the first to disagree and attempt to contradict it with whatever evidence you may have had, whether it was biased or factual, provided that you previously admitted that your original idea was to change my mind by bringing about whatever notables & refferences possible. YOU EDITED the Zeison Sha article and Marka Ragnos article.
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