So in the CLone Wars we see Darth Sidious fight and defeat both Darth Maul and Savage. Would the outcome have possibly been any different if Dooku took the place of Maul?
Well I'd like to think they have a chance, but it will probably just be too easy for Sidious to take out someone with so little training like Opress mid-fight.
Then that just leaves Sidious vs Dooku.
Realistically Dooku needs someone at least the caliber of Maul at his side before he can start thinking about taking on Sidious.
Yeah I agree. I think Dooku can give Sidious a decent fight though. Considering Dooku's skills with a saber and the fact that his only real weakness is being overpowered by physically stronger opponents. And I just cant see Sidious physically overpowering him. I think it comes down to how long can Savage can manage to stay alive and help Dooku.
Replace Savage with Maul and you have a good fight, considering Dooku thought a fully trained Savage (who'd be about Maul level) and him could take down Sidious.
Even if you replace Savage with Maul, Sidious still wins pretty handily. Sidious already proved that Maul is pretty much a non-factor, especially when he uses his force powers. Maul wouldn't be much help for Dooku at all really.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Last edited by Dominis on Aug 27th, 2013 at 07:13 PM
Dooku is stated in canon to be Windu's equal, and we all saw that Mace was able to give Sidious hell. If you throw in Maul it'd be an even harder fight for Sidious.
I think Dooku alone can give Sidious a good fight throw in someone who's competent enough with a blade to not get offed instantly and you have a really good fight.
Hell Sidious even feared Dooku and Asajj coming after him.
Windu has vapaad and shatterpoint, things Dooku do not possess. Windu's "defeat" of Sidious was a very one off performance, and may have even been a set up defeat by Sidious (going by all the hints in the movie and other EU material).
Dooku does not match Sidious in any area. Sidious is quite a bit faster, far stronger, more skilled, and far more powerful than him. And no, Maul is not going to give Dooku much help, especially when Sidious has already proved that he can easily dispose of Maul with the force. Windu started out with three of the orders greatest warriors and they provided him with no significant advantage over Sidious, so how you assume Maul is going to provide Dooku with much help is beyond me.
Dooku has absolutely no feats to suggest that he can give Sidious hell. Windu hasn't even shown the feats to suggest that he has what it takes to give Sidious hell up until ROTS. Simply saying "well Dooku was stated to be Windu's equal and Windu gave Sidious hell, so therefore Dooku can" is not a good start for an argument when going by consistency.
Yeah Sidious was so scared of the two that he felt comfortable enough to throw around his authority to Dooku. Somehow it seems that if Sidious truly found the two team-sith as a threat, he would have found ways to eliminate Ventress on his own, not demand her own sith partner to.
Sidious did not fear Dooku and Ventress; nothing even hints to it. All that is implied is that he believed Ventress was growing more powerful than she should be, and that he had suspicions that Dooku was training her as a sith apprentice to overthrow him. Certainly if Dooku was a good match for Sidious, then he wouldn't fear Sidious to the extent that he does, especially if he has a sith apprentice that may even the odds.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
And yet with vaapad and shatterpoint he was still Dooku's equal. Dooku also has mastery of all VII forms of lightsaber combat to the extent that he could teach them to Grievous. Dooku is also noted as being the most agile swordmaster and instructor in the temple. Meaning, faster than Mace who was as fast as Sidious.
Because Filoni says that Savage alone performed way better than the B-Team. Let alone Maul. Maul is in a different league than all of them.
Dooku has no feats to suggest he can give Sidious hell? Really? He gave Master Yoda hell. The same Master Yoda who disarmed Sidious. And he was stated to be at least Mace's equal, who...also disarmed Sidious. Also Dooku is the only person in the mythos to ever injure Master Yoda.
He was afraid she was GROWING too strong. Just like how Galen Marek and Vader are a threat to him, so would a fully trained Ventress and Dooku.
May is operative here. And Dooku tells Savage that he will make him rival Darth Maul, with the intention of overthrowing Sidious. Do you seriously think Dooku would attempt a suicide run at the most powerful Sith Lord in history for shits?
Get your head out of your ass. Sidious is better than Dooku, but the margin isn't as massive as you think. Dooku is essentially Vader with force lightning and not his glaring weakness to Sidious lighting.
does no one understand that mace's win over sidious was a one-time performance? he only beat him because he went to the deepest depths of vaapad, no longer afraid of falling to the darkside, this happened when he figured out that the leader of his beloved repubic was the dark lord of the sith. at that point, mace > yoda, but at any other time, yoda > mace, and yoda = sidious
Edit: So dooku's better than vader? im sorry, but no way
also, when did dooku injure yoda, on vjun?
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
Last edited by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 07:51 PM
He wasn't greater than Yoda at that point. He became Sidious's equal in Sabers and won through gaining a tactical advantage(possibly due to Shatterpoint).
But yes it was a Peak Performance for Mace. But still that fight plus Dooku vs Yoda in AOTC, proved that Mace/Dooku are both powerful enough to fight Yoda/Sidious.
Well Dooku's the better Saber Duelist. That's for sure. And he'd hardly be a non-factor in a Force contest either.
Saying OMG to Dooku taking 2/10 wins? Get your head outta your ass man!
This is Star Wars! Where Kenobi can beat the guy who battered the guy who thrashed him.. Where the Second most powerful Jedi can beat the Sith Lord that the Most Powerful Jedi lost to. And where Kenobi can beat 2 Sith together one time, when every other time he's been unable to defeat either one, even getting thrashed by the weaker one a couple of times!
Last edited by Darth Thor on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 08:08 PM
i just cant see dooku winning, they MIGHT stalemate in sabers, but sidious can overwhelm him with far superior force abilities.
or he could just blitz dooku
Edit: plus didnt dooku have to flee on geonosis?
the things you just said were mostly circumstancial. Like kenobi beating anakin, he took advantage of his mental state, mace was amped like never before, and kenobi had 2 sabers
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
Last edited by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 08:14 PM
That one time power up he received is what Sidious fights at with his own ability. He managed to reach an impasse until Sidious had to shift some speed into grip on the slippery permecrete.
That's the point. People have peak performances. People have weak performances. Fights have circumstances involved.
Since Dooku/Mace are the next league down after Sidious/Yoda, it's not inconceivable that through different circumstances and/or states of combatants that the latter could lose a fight at some point.
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