Darkseid can control how powerful his OE is, so I guess it's up to him who he kills. As the OE has worked and incinerated people stronger then Superman
Lobo is a gag character, his actions are meant to over-the-top and silly to entertain the audience (much like Deadpool) , thus i'd take whatever Lobo does with a pinch of salt and a dash of common sense.
The Doctor has some very good, and also inexplicably bad, telepathic showings. I'm going to post them all with commentary and make some sense of it all...because it has a rational explanation but needs to be looked at in-depth first.
The Good
I'll be showing anything that could be considered telepathic skill, either specifically stated or implied.
First off, The Doctor retains memories, powers, and experiences from all past Doctors. This is corroborated by numerous scans, and I have proven it elsewhere. I'll be showing instances that include 3 different Doctors, and all are valid as commentary on the single character that is "The Doctor."
The evil Doctor assaults Engineer with corpses of those she has loved. http://img456.imageshack.us/my.php?image=100lu.jpg
...without having stated it specifically, a telepathic intrusion would be required to glean such information about Angie.
Jeroen telepathically floods a man with every experience of the entire human race. The last panel also shows the dialogue in a floating speech bubble, which implies telepathic thought. Even if that isn't the case, the telepathic assault is formidable. http://img282.imageshack.us/my.php?image=185kg.jpg
Jeroen cuts off a telepath who had controlled about 70% of the world's population telepathically (according to the Authority's estimates). http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=210sr.jpg
...showing that he can counter telepathic power as well.
This is Habib now. Jackson King, a mid-level telepath, takes over Jenny Quantum in this scan. The implication in his words is that everyone else on the team had mental resistances formidable enough to counter him. http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=n2da7.jpg
...regardless, if he had been able to take over Habib, or hinder him telepathically in some way, he clearly would have, since he had no hesitation in comandeering Jenny and the two of them were easily the most powerful in the battle and thus the biggest threats to King.
Initial Conclusions
The Authority regularly use Angie's nanobot radio-telepathy to communicate, so Doctor isn't called upon to use his telepathic skill often or in mundane ways. But all of these things show formidable tp skill, and the number of instances suggests that it's not a fluke or bad writing. This is also consistent with his power set, which is, in a nutshell, to think of something and have it happen (whether by matter manip, time manip, or othermeans).
....
The Bad
This is the first instance of Doctor's power being cut off. Since he regains it when the big guy loses his concentration, the most logical conclusion is that it's some sort of telepathic block. http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=n3ep9.jpg http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=n4bx2.jpg
...also interesting is that once he regains his powers, he specifically states that he telepathically contacted the Authority to inform them of the danger. So he has tp powers apparently but still got cut off.
The second instance is against Henry Bendix, who had Jackson King's telepathic powers. It is particularly odd, because this is the same power set that Habib was said to be immune to in the earlier scan. http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=n3oe2.jpg http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=n4mt7.jpg
...Bendix was said to be using King's powers better than King himself, so we can assume slightly greater telepathic power. But it still pales in comparison to some of the early feats, specifically the telepath he casually negated who had taken over most of the planet.
...
Conclusions
1. The bad showings aren't flukes, and show a legitimate weakness. I'll get to why in a second.
2. But the Doctor does have telepathic powers. Multiple showings to this affect prove this.
3. In the first bad showing, Doctor was cut off from his power before he realized there was a telepath in the area, or even before he was formally attacked. In the Bendix scan, Bendix makes the point that Habib can make any thought a reality but he cut off the part of his brain that controls memory. The implication is that if Habib could think of something, Bendix would be screwed.
4. Thus, I believe the explanation is that Habib/Jeroen simply hadn't thought the right thought to counter such an attack in either case. The Doctor is a normal human until he thinks of something and activates his powers. This is true physically, and many people exploit this weakness for "speedblitz ftw" arguments in the vs. forum when a fast character is facing the Doctor and doesn't have as much power as him otherwise. It only makes sense that the same holds true telepathically.
5. The only other possible explanation is lazy and inconsistent writing. I don't believe that to be the case, because both good and bad telepathic showings have happened more than once now. And my explanation also makes sense given Doctor's powers and how they work. My explanation matches with all the data and provides an elegant solution (imo). If anyone has other thoughts, or comments/questions, feel free to speak them.
So...myth busted? Not exactly, but sorta. He's vulnerable in certain situations, but certainly not when he's had time to prep for a telepath.
In regards to Lobo, and the authentic of his feats.
You have to keep in mind that; you are actively participating, in a sub section that embraces fictional fights, from fictional literature. So it becomes silly, for one to say ‘I accept this character, over the other”, purely on what one deems more surreal. In a sense that is bias and discriminating, I mean chances are that most of the popular characters have at one point or another defied or completely shattered the laws of causality with a crude explanation.
Ending my rant, I have not come across the universe tossing feat. Nor have I seen it in any respect thread. Even if I did come across the scan, it would probably be refuted or negated. Let it be, because its not your kind of character. Or because that is a one time feat, that he isn’t seen to do casually on a consistent biases (which would make a better argument).
Myth: That Superman was at his fullest while fighting Wonder Woman in Sacrifice...
Alright, so, for a while on KMC, there has been the perception that Wonder Woman held her own against a fully committed, ready to kill her Superman in issue 219 of her last series, and that it was an incredibly achievement for Diana. Now, while lasting any amount of time against a being such as Superman is undoubtedly impressive, I am here now to say that the power Superman wielded in that battle has been overstated... And i have what i believe to be definitive PROOF.
It all starts in Adventures of Superman 642, where we find out that under the influence of Maxwell Lord's telepathic power, Superman has been made to see incredibly traumatic images of loved ones being killed by his most dangerous enemies. Maxwell Lord had also recently murdered Ted Kord (Blue Beetle), and had taken control of the Brother Eye satellite. Lord uses the images of the likes of Brainiac, Darkseid, Doomsday and Ruin to scar Superman, making him watch them butcher those he cares most about in the world. With that rage boiling over, Lord makes Superman believe that one of his allies, Bruce Wayne, is one such enemy, and Superman attacks his close friend, almost killing him. Here's the scan:
Batman survives (a supposedly full on attack from Superman), and with help from the Martian Manhunter, Superman and the rest of the JLA realise that Maxwell Lord is the one causing Clark to see these horrible images. After escaping the JLA's attempts to put him into protective custody, Clark heads for Lord's location, quickly followed by Wonder Woman.
When the princess arrives, however, she finds that Lord has once again taken control of the Man of Steel. Lord begins to describe how he has taken control of Clark, and has just made him watch, within his mind, Doomsday murdering his beloved Lois Lane. This fight takes place in Wonder Woman 219.
Then, Lord sets the heartbroken, enraged Superman against Wonder Woman, and they fight, Wonder Woman convinced Clark is holding nothing back, as he's just watched Doomsday murder his wife:
With Clark stunned, Diana uses what little time she has, and seeing no other alternative, kills Maxwell Lord, freeing Superman from his control. What happens next? Infinite Crisis, Alexander Luthor and Superboy Prime attempting to remake the universe as they see fit.
Over a year passes, before Booster Gold, still saddened by the loss of his best friend Blue Beetle, decides to change history, and rescue Beetle from the clutches of Maxwell Lord. He succeeds (Booster Gold 6), but changes history, changing it to the effect that Lord isn't killed by Wonder Woman, and using Superman as his puppet (along with an army of omacs), conquers the planet.
We do learn, now, that even with his powers honed over many years, that no matter how hard he tries, he is unable to make Superman kill for him (Booster Gold 8).
Of course, Lord isn't the first being that has attempted to coerce the Man of Steel into committing dirty deeds, there have been many more. One thing, however, remains constant. Superman's ability to resist and fight against the mental onslaught he is under...
Batman 612: Under Poison Ivy's control, Superman is forced to attack the Batman. Several times during the battle, Batman talks about how Superman is still fighting Ivy's control, and holds back even though his own body betrays him.
and these are just some examples, they aren't even the entirety...
So, given Superman's incredibly impressive ability to combat mental control, and the ON PANEL proof that Maxwell Lord couldn't make him kill, the chance that he was actually at his fullest and actively trying to kill Diana is slim to none.
Myth. Busted.
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Many thanks to Avlon, Soljer and Bada for their input and assistance in putting this together...
KMC Community Forums
Expect more wanking from Starlin.
Mar 20th, 2008 11:53 PM
