KMC Forums

 
  REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Already a member? Log-in!
 
 
Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: TV Series » Episode 22- Hostage Crisis


Episode 22- Hostage Crisis
Started by: Nactous

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (7): « 1 2 [3] 4 5 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

Damn edit...

I must have misunderstood your original post. I can see why people dislike her. I wasn't involved in the 3mil debate. I just like her work. I personally find it an essential verbalization of my conception of Star Wars.


__________________


| Sigs | My Artwork | Sig Duel Record 24:4 | Alliance Respect Thread |

Old Post Mar 23rd, 2009 06:15 PM
Click here to Send Ordo a Private Message Find more posts by Ordo Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Nactous
Restricted

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: United States

Account Restricted


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
Damn edit...

I must have misunderstood your original post. I can see why people dislike her. I wasn't involved in the 3mil debate. I just like her work. I personally find it an essential verbalization of my conception of Star Wars.


Im not a fan of what she did to the Mandos..


__________________

"The wait is over."

Old Post Mar 23rd, 2009 07:05 PM
Click here to Send Nactous a Private Message Find more posts by Nactous Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

She salvaged them from a retarded fanboy obscurity and made them real.


__________________


| Sigs | My Artwork | Sig Duel Record 24:4 | Alliance Respect Thread |

Old Post Mar 23rd, 2009 07:31 PM
Click here to Send Ordo a Private Message Find more posts by Ordo Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Final Blaxican
Restricted

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: The epitome of my evolution.

Account Restricted


 

She also overrated them to the point of disgust.

One million clones troopers? Really.

And Boba's shenanigans in the EU is also retarded.


__________________


Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 12:36 AM
Click here to Send Final Blaxican a Private Message Find more posts by Final Blaxican Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

*faceplam* 3...THREE million (she claims) its certainly not less than that.

And over-rated? lol. She found the best of star wars and ran with it.


__________________


| Sigs | My Artwork | Sig Duel Record 24:4 | Alliance Respect Thread |

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 01:34 AM
Click here to Send Ordo a Private Message Find more posts by Ordo Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
REXXXX
Networking

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: San Diego

Moderator


 

I agree with Boba's shenanigans. The Republic Commando books she's written have been impressive. But she's still a major *****.


__________________

My Twitter My Facebook My Tumblr My Wordpress

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 02:44 AM
Click here to Send REXXXX a Private Message Find more posts by REXXXX Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Nactous
Restricted

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: United States

Account Restricted


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
She salvaged them from a retarded fanboy obscurity and made them real.


By "real" you mean, took the bad ass out of the equation than yes, "real" and dare I say a tad bit boring. Thank God she hasn't touched the KotOR era Mandos yet....


__________________

"The wait is over."

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 04:43 AM
Click here to Send Nactous a Private Message Find more posts by Nactous Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Captain REX
The Republic Commando books she's written have been impressive. But she's still a major *****.


I can live with that...lol stick out tongue

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nactous
Thank God she hasn't touched the KotOR era Mandos yet....


Ok. I take issue with this. The KOTOR era Mandos are the sorries, lazziest, most uncreative group I could imagine. They are there as an accessory to a Jedi plotline because, at that point, Star Wars was limited to SURPIRSE!...antoher Jedi plotline. They laze around in their monochromatic tin can beskar all day being terrified of bomas. Why? they were so "badass" that they got their shebs wiped all over the damn galaxy and were pummeled into a permenant obscurity.

See, fans are not fanboys. Fanboys like something because its "badass." Fans like something because it has personal meaning. Fake wars about Mandalorians with big egos and tiny brains and unrealistic sensse of honor are for fanboys. Sotries about combat and honor driven culture, character development, and questions of morality are for Fans. I am a Mando FAN. I like them because of the depth of their CULTURE, the struggles and culture they represent. I like that there is a hyper-masculine warrior culture that accepts gay relationships. I like that honor and fitness are portrayted as lifestyle choices. I like concepts of brotherhood and mutual respect based on skill. I like Mandos because I find it the stories and the characters relevant to my life, my morals, and my goals.

Traviss, like her or not, is a lynchpin here, but Lucas is too. Boba was an accessory deliveryman in ESB and ROTJ who fired off about 5 shots and got his jetpac whacked before falling into a worm-gut. Jango is presented differently, he has more screen time, is shown in family situations, and has dialogue that (at least) addresses his lifestyle and motivation. This is one reason I LOVE the PT over the OT (and hate crap like KOTOR). It presents depth and Traviss has taken that an run with it. Sitting around a camp all day being terrified of Bomas is BORING, especially whin their "badass" ignorance got them in that situation to begin with, a punishment that they no doubt deserved. If thats "badass" then you can keep it. Republic Commando spawned all this and it is, to my knowledge, the first SW game to present the universe from the gritty persepctive of a soldier, REAL military sci fi. All of Travis's Mandos sprung from this radical reinterpretation of Star Wars. Its also these things that made me a Star Wars fan/nut/however far you want to brand me lol. AOTC/RC/ROTS got me where KOTOR/OT never did. I had never cried at a movie until ROTS (lame I know). All this says something. I'm not trying to bash, I accept there are different kind of fans from different places in Star Wars (liek Queeq is old lol). This stuff is the engine of my fandom because it is SO deep and so interesting its worth exploring.

To me, "badass" is overcomming problems, fighting for your vode regardless of the situation, self sacrifice, overcomming moral struggles....thats worhty of being a fan. I know things like culture and character depth, personal struggle and morality are "boring" (rolls eyes)...but it IS real, its relevant, and far superior (and more badass) than any "badassery" that has bred countless KOTOR fanboys.


__________________


| Sigs | My Artwork | Sig Duel Record 24:4 | Alliance Respect Thread |

Last edited by Ordo on Mar 24th, 2009 at 05:27 AM

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 05:18 AM
Click here to Send Ordo a Private Message Find more posts by Ordo Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Nactous
Restricted

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: United States

Account Restricted


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
I can live with that...lol stick out tongue



Ok. I take issue with this. The KOTOR era Mandos are the sorries, lazziest, most uncreative group I could imagine. They are there as an accessory to a Jedi plotline because, at that point, Star Wars was limited to SURPIRSE!...antoher Jedi plotline. They laze around in their monochromatic tin can beskar all day being terrified of bomas. Why? they were so "badass" that they got their shebs wiped all over the damn galaxy and were pummeled into a permenant obscurity.


They were also the most warrior like(how many times have the Mandos been a serious threat since?), all Traviss has done is soften them up. Tell me, have you read the KotOR comics?


__________________

"The wait is over."

Last edited by Nactous on Mar 24th, 2009 at 05:27 AM

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 05:23 AM
Click here to Send Nactous a Private Message Find more posts by Nactous Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

^^^Edited some if you care.

If by "warrior like" you mean charicatures of warriors yes, you are correct. I dont know what you think combat is like. Not that I've been, but a lot of it is sitting around. You make combat a lifestyle...a lot f it is boring training interrupted by sporadic moments of sheer terror. Its nto about pinning medals to your chest or shooting things. War, combat is humanities and mand greatest endeavors. It defines what it means to be human, it challenges our humanity, our psychology, orr phsyicality, and our emotions in ways nothing else on this eath does. Warrior is a lifestyle...a mentality...an emotional state and a physical state...not an occupation.

Mandalorians dont need to be "threats." MEN need to be threats...and there is plenty of that in Traviss' work. And why aren't Mandalorains (group) a threaty ever again? Because they got their dumb shebs wiped out making stupid decisions for 2-year-old-conceptions of honor.

Traviss HAS indeed soften them up. She's made them men instead of cartoons. She has shown the good bad an the ugly. This is far more entertaining and admirable then thinking life is charging into enemy lines, guns blazing, and slaughtering all the bad guys.

And no, I haven't read all the KOTOR comics, just the ones with Mandos in them wink.


__________________


| Sigs | My Artwork | Sig Duel Record 24:4 | Alliance Respect Thread |

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 05:36 AM
Click here to Send Ordo a Private Message Find more posts by Ordo Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Nactous
Restricted

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: United States

Account Restricted


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
I can live with that...lol stick out tongue



Ok. I take issue with this. The KOTOR era Mandos are the sorries, lazziest, most uncreative group I could imagine. They are there as an accessory to a Jedi plotline because, at that point, Star Wars was limited to SURPIRSE!...antoher Jedi plotline. They laze around in their monochromatic tin can beskar all day being terrified of bomas. Why? they were so "badass" that they got their shebs wiped all over the damn galaxy and were pummeled into a permenant obscurity.

See, fans are not fanboys. Fanboys like something because its "badass." Fans like something because it has personal meaning. Fake wars about Mandalorians with big egos and tiny brains and unrealistic sensse of honor are for fanboys. Sotries about combat and honor driven culture, character development, and questions of morality are for Fans. I am a Mando FAN. I like them because of the depth of their CULTURE, the struggles and culture they represent. I like that there is a hyper-masculine warrior culture that accepts gay relationships. I like that honor and fitness are portrayted as lifestyle choices. I like concepts of brotherhood and mutual respect based on skill. I like Mandos because I find it the stories and the characters relevant to my life, my morals, and my goals.

Traviss, like her or not, is a lynchpin here, but Lucas is too. Boba was an accessory deliveryman in ESB and ROTJ who fired off about 5 shots and got his jetpac whacked before falling into a worm-gut. Jango is presented differently, he has more screen time, is shown in family situations, and has dialogue that (at least) addresses his lifestyle and motivation. This is one reason I LOVE the PT over the OT (and hate crap like KOTOR). It presents depth and Traviss has taken that an run with it. Sitting around a camp all day being terrified of Bomas is BORING, especially whin their "badass" ignorance got them in that situation to begin with, a punishment that they no doubt deserved. If thats "badass" then you can keep it. Republic Commando spawned all this and it is, to my knowledge, the first SW game to present the universe from the gritty persepctive of a soldier, REAL military sci fi. All of Travis's Mandos sprung from this radical reinterpretation of Star Wars. Its also these things that made me a Star Wars fan/nut/however far you want to brand me lol. AOTC/RC/ROTS got me where KOTOR/OT never did. I had never cried at a movie until ROTS (lame I know). All this says something. I'm not trying to bash, I accept there are different kind of fans from different places in Star Wars (liek Queeq is old lol). This stuff is the engine of my fandom because it is SO deep and so interesting its worth exploring.

To me, "badass" is overcomming problems, fighting for your vode regardless of the situation, self sacrifice, overcomming moral struggles....thats worhty of being a fan. I know things like culture and character depth, personal struggle and morality are "boring" (rolls eyes)...but it IS real, its relevant, and far superior (and more badass) than any "badassery" that has bred countless KOTOR fanboys.


I take offense good sir,

You consider the KotOR Mandalorians the "lazziest, most uncreative group ", while it is quite the contrary. The KotOR Mandos are the only Mandos to date to have launched a full-scale war against the Republic and almost won(they did this without Sith aid unlike the TOTJ Mandos.) This was done through trickery and deception, throwing the Republic of guard by a false war, then attacking from three different sectors. This is something that we really haven't seen before in the Star Wars lore. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_Wars

Call me a fanboy all you wont(I take it as somewhat of a compliment) but I feel the KotOR Mandos truly live up to the image Boba Fett created nearly thirty years ago, one of mystery and unparalleled ruthlessness. Somethings don't need to be fully flushed out. You make it seem that KotOR Mandos have no depth at all in fact, if I'm not correct, the Mando that your named after had so much honor that he swore his allegiance to the man that destroyed his people's army, simply due to the fact that he had so much respect for him. I see the Canderous as the only "true" Mando you encounter in the game due to the fact that the others strike me as simple mercenaries that have lost their code of honor. Another concept that I enjoy is the fact that KotOR Mandos are more than just human, from Rodians to Wookies, all seem to join the Mando cause and belief unlike the later Mandos that seem to be mostly human.

In the end, it truly feels like we are comparing two different groups together. I like my Nomadic Mandalorians, filled with mystery and war, they are exactly what they should be, unpredictable and forever adapting. Where Traviss Mandos feel more conservative and less exciting, too plain, as if they simply want to "talk it out." Arent they supposed to be ruthless after all? Sometimes things don't need to be explained or expanded. Hell, look at Boba Fett, he was really cool until he came back...


__________________

"The wait is over."

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 06:03 AM
Click here to Send Nactous a Private Message Find more posts by Nactous Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Hybris
Jedi Panda

Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Belgium


 

Not that all of this isn't interesting reading material, but isn't this EU material?

Queeq, salva nos !


__________________

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 08:42 AM
Click here to Send Hybris a Private Message Find more posts by Hybris Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

Indeed. Cut the very clear EU stuff, take it to the EU forum.


__________________

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 11:08 AM
Click here to Send queeq a Private Message Find more posts by queeq Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
REXXXX
Networking

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: San Diego

Moderator


 

All that aside... Traviss is still a terrible, fan-hating *****. But yeah, toss it in the EU forum. Start a thread about Mandos if you like. Personally don't care for them much.


__________________

My Twitter My Facebook My Tumblr My Wordpress

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 11:50 AM
Click here to Send REXXXX a Private Message Find more posts by REXXXX Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Final Blaxican
Restricted

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: The epitome of my evolution.

Account Restricted


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
*faceplam* 3...THREE million (she claims) its certainly not less than that.


That's terrible.

Nine million would be a more acceptable number, considering the CIS was employing upwards of a billion. One army, for one planet, had " several million" by itself. If 3 million clones were spread out over the thousands of planets that were warred on, they would only have some thousands on each planet, And one Clone is not > a hundred droids. One clone is not even > ten droids.\\... though the shitty CLone Wars cartoon out right now would lead you to think so.

quote:
And over-rated? lol. She found the best of star wars and ran with it. [/B]


She took the best of Star Wars and almost ruined them. Like REX, the Commando books I found to be great. However, stating things like the Mandalorians were the Jedi's greatest adversary and the like is just... wrong. Anytime a clone or a mandalorian goes up against at least a knight or above level Jedi they get butchered, and that's how it should be.


__________________


Last edited by Final Blaxican on Mar 24th, 2009 at 01:44 PM

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 01:38 PM
Click here to Send Final Blaxican a Private Message Find more posts by Final Blaxican Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

Well, in CANON [wink] Kenobi failed to kill Jango. Mace even had trouble getting the job done. I disagree that Mandalorians are the Jedi's greatest adversary, that's for the Sith. But I disagree that they're irrelevant. There is much more in star wars than dudes with shiny sticks. I find a man going up against a demi-god to be much more intriguing than a bunch of overblown ego-wads dueling with light and lightning.

As for the other stuff, I cant address that here now, but Filoni is doing it wrong...because he 1. doesn't care and 2. doesn't care to discover. "Immensely superior to droids" doesn't mean a 2:1 kill ratio. You combine individual skill with group tactics, 100s:1 kill ratios are acceptable, especially because it is suggest that there are trillions of Sep droids, if not many times that number. Yes, 3 mill is to small. So is 9 lol. But again, I dont think the movie suggests that these are really occupying forces. You have highly motile forces in any field and large bulk transports capable of moving entire armies within days. It seems combat is more jumping around than landing an army and marching on a planet. Seps seem to be more of an occupying force whereas the GAR engages the concentrated areas of the Seps and maintains external power structures.


__________________


| Sigs | My Artwork | Sig Duel Record 24:4 | Alliance Respect Thread |

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 01:59 PM
Click here to Send Ordo a Private Message Find more posts by Ordo Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Hybris
Jedi Panda

Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Belgium


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
Well, in CANON [wink] Kenobi failed to kill Jango.


Because there was a huge ship shooting at him and it wasn't his intention/mission to kill him.

quote:
Mace even had trouble getting the job done.


No offence to Jango, but it didn't seem to take Mace more effort than dealing with a few droids. He had more trouble killing the reek than killing Jango.


__________________

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 03:28 PM
Click here to Send Hybris a Private Message Find more posts by Hybris Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Nactous
Restricted

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: United States

Account Restricted


 

Huh, like this isn't EU either....


__________________

"The wait is over."

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 03:48 PM
Click here to Send Nactous a Private Message Find more posts by Nactous Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hybris
Because there was a huge ship shooting at him and it wasn't his intention/mission to kill him.


Kenobi failed to do that...repeatedly. He couldn't even track him.



quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hybris
No offence to Jango, but it didn't seem to take Mace more effort than dealing with a few droids. He had more trouble killing the reek than killing Jango.


No droid ever lit Mace on fire.

Also, Jango killed the reek and had it not been for the damaged jetpack, Jango would have survived.


__________________


| Sigs | My Artwork | Sig Duel Record 24:4 | Alliance Respect Thread |

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 04:24 PM
Click here to Send Ordo a Private Message Find more posts by Ordo Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
REXXXX
Networking

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: San Diego

Moderator


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nactous
Huh, like this isn't EU either....


It isn't. The television series holds a higher place in canon.


__________________

My Twitter My Facebook My Tumblr My Wordpress

Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 05:37 PM
Click here to Send REXXXX a Private Message Find more posts by REXXXX Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 08:55 AM.
Pages (7): « 1 2 [3] 4 5 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< Contact Us - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Forum powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.