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God or Satan...Who's Truly Evil?
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King Kandy
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Like who? Don't say gnostics... god is perfect in gnosticism, the demiurge isn't the real god in that religion...


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Old Post Aug 16th, 2009 07:50 AM
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Lord Lucien
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Re: God or Satan...Who's Truly Evil?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Luminatus
Basic human nature tells us that what we are refused is even more alluring.
Arguing "it's human nature" to some religious folks is more useless than banging your head against the wall.


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Old Post Aug 16th, 2009 09:00 AM
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Mindship
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All metaphors are imperfect.
Biblical God is a metaphor.
Therefore, Biblical God is imperfect.

Debates about metaphors ---> conclusions about metaphors.


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Old Post Aug 16th, 2009 02:39 PM
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Symmetric Chaos
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mindship
All metaphors are imperfect.
Biblical God is a metaphor.
Therefore, Biblical God is imperfect.


Four terms fallacy.


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Old Post Aug 16th, 2009 05:47 PM
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King Kandy
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I don't see the four terms.

1. Biblical God
2. Metaphors
3. Imperfection

None of those has a double meaning that would create a fourth term.


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Old Post Aug 16th, 2009 05:55 PM
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Symmetric Chaos
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't see the four terms.

1. Biblical God
2. Metaphors
3. Imperfection

None of those has a double meaning that would create a fourth term.


Metaphor is used two slightly different ways. Unless he's saying that god is a literary device which is clearly not how the Bible portrays it.

Or alternately God is used two different ways. God as a metaphor and God as actually portrayed in the bible.


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A juvenal prank.

Last edited by Symmetric Chaos on Aug 16th, 2009 at 06:02 PM

Old Post Aug 16th, 2009 05:59 PM
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Mindship
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Metaphor is used two slightly different ways. Unless he's saying that god is a literary device which is clearly not how the Bible portrays it.

Or alternately God is used two different ways. God as a metaphor and God as actually portrayed in the bible.
Biblical God as a practical, more concrete metaphor for something which (if it exists) is infinite in every sense of the word and therefore ultimately unimaginable, certainly ineffable.


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Old Post Aug 16th, 2009 06:12 PM
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Bardock42
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Luminatus
It all started earlier today with looking up chaos religions and finding out about Discordianism. That somehow led to Satanism which led to me reading a bit about Theistic Satanism ie. worshiping Satan as a god.

When you actually think about it, isn't it God who truly tempted Adam and Eve? He chose to put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil there and said "don't eat from this tree." Basic human nature tells us that what we are refused is even more alluring.

Plus, I'm not a big Old Testament buff but didn't God tell the Jews to kinda kill a lot? So I don't see Satan in The Bible orchestrating mass murder.

Also I found this interesting quote earlier.

It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis (Lucifer); He refused to be of those who prostrate.

(Allah) said: "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay." Qur'an 7:11-12

Seems like a fair enough objection to me. If I had all the power and wisdom of an angel I wouldn't bow to us either.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Reign_In_Hell


Fun read.


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Bardock42 is a whimpering pussy now who lost his flare to debate vigorously and just spouts senseless and thinly veiled puns here and there. You nazi pr*ck. Get your balls back from whoever you sold them to, you fat f*ck. What happened to the manly, chubby German big mouth we once knew, who'd flatten ignorance with a solid argument? Now it's like Andy Dick meets John Candy. You hybrid beefcake. Suck my c*ck

- valid criticism by "Mammon"

Old Post Aug 16th, 2009 07:55 PM
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Rogue Jedi
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bardock42
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Reign_In_Hell


Fun read.
Sounds like a VERY good read. Hellooooooooooooo Amazon..... smile


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Old Post Aug 16th, 2009 08:21 PM
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MitzvahMan
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Re: God or Satan...Who's Truly Evil?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Luminatus
It all started earlier today with looking up chaos religions and finding out about Discordianism. That somehow led to Satanism which led to me reading a bit about Theistic Satanism ie. worshiping Satan as a god.

When you actually think about it, isn't it God who truly tempted Adam and Eve? He chose to put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil there and said "don't eat from this tree." Basic human nature tells us that what we are refused is even more alluring.

Plus, I'm not a big Old Testament buff but didn't God tell the Jews to kinda kill a lot? So I don't see Satan in The Bible orchestrating mass murder.

Also I found this interesting quote earlier.

It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis (Lucifer); He refused to be of those who prostrate.

(Allah) said: "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay." Qur'an 7:11-12

Seems like a fair enough objection to me. If I had all the power and wisdom of an angel I wouldn't bow to us either.


It is an interesting objection to be sure. I believe that God commanded the Israelites to kill for a variety of reasons. Sometimes in defense of them but other times it could be considered a test of sorts.

Angels are emanations of God and in that they have no will other than what he bestows... man is given the will of god and is superior to angels. That said the notion that satan is an enemy of god is a misconception within christianity. He is another emanation.

Old Post Aug 18th, 2009 07:55 PM
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BackinBlack
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all i remember is that Satan's ultimate trump card is that he can manupilate our strength into our weakness.
i'm seeing that here.


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Old Post Aug 19th, 2009 07:24 AM
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BackinBlack
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speaking with faith in mind:
I think lotta times people refuse to see the keyword: beyond human understanding when it comes to religions. we always go around pretending that we understand things and a few years down the road we're proven wrong. yet, every single time the "wise people" gather together and pretend that they've got everything figured out. and with this limited, feeble, overly self-indulgent "thinking" people are going around calling god evil and satan good.


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Turning and turning in a widening gye
The falcon cannot hear the falconner
Things fall apart, the center cannot hold
Mere Anarchy is loosened upon the world

Old Post Aug 19th, 2009 07:46 AM
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Luminatus
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Actually from what I've read, the reason many Satanists worship Him is because they view Him as a source of knowledge. They see his guiding Eve to eat the fruit as not an act of evil seduction but wanting to help humans learn and live under their own strength.

This is a nice little site.
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/

And I'm a simple person so i appreciate words more with visuals and music so this vid is nice too.

Old Post Aug 19th, 2009 03:20 PM
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BackinBlack
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yeah i know. satanism isn't actually "oh lets kill babies in the name of satan" as most people think. satanism actually use satan because they view him the epitome of individuality. which, baring my religious side, i do actually see. satanism is in fact actually pragmatic and realistic.


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Turning and turning in a widening gye
The falcon cannot hear the falconner
Things fall apart, the center cannot hold
Mere Anarchy is loosened upon the world

Old Post Aug 20th, 2009 09:05 AM
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Thundar
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Re: God or Satan...Who's Truly Evil?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Luminatus
It all started earlier today with looking up chaos religions and finding out about Discordianism. That somehow led to Satanism which led to me reading a bit about Theistic Satanism ie. worshiping Satan as a god.

When you actually think about it, isn't it God who truly tempted Adam and Eve? He chose to put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil there and said "don't eat from this tree." Basic human nature tells us that what we are refused is even more alluring.

Plus, I'm not a big Old Testament buff but didn't God tell the Jews to kinda kill a lot? So I don't see Satan in The Bible orchestrating mass murder.

Also I found this interesting quote earlier.

It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis (Lucifer); He refused to be of those who prostrate.

(Allah) said: "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay." Qur'an 7:11-12

Seems like a fair enough objection to me. If I had all the power and wisdom of an angel I wouldn't bow to us either.


God is Love, and he worketh all things for the good of those who love him(good).


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2009 06:10 PM
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Shakyamunison
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Re: Re: God or Satan...Who's Truly Evil?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Thundar
God is Love, and he worketh all things for the good of those who love him(good).


If god is all love then "he" would not not limit that love to just those who love "him". True love does not require anything in return.


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Old Post Yesterday 11:08 PM
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ArtificialGlory
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God is definitely the evil one. He hides hatred, egomania, hipocrisy, cruelty, bigotry, and his obsession with control behind a thin veneer of supposed love.

Edit: This, of course, if God is indeed represented by most christians, especially the hardline ones.


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