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War and Link vs Kratos, Bayonetta and Dante
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fascistcrusader
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You've been proven wrong in multiple threads on multiple forums. It's kind of sad really, once you realize no one is buying your bullshit you feel the need to bring in other fanboys. You probably realize that you're wrong but are to proud to admit it so you try to save face with pseudowitty comments and out of thin air numbers. I'm afraid that the supersonic thousand ton Link will forever remain in your wet dreams. sad


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:18 AM
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iChaos
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42 pages of nonsense, I think.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:19 AM
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ScreamPaste
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FC's learning new fallacies all the time.

Also, BT, I love how you have no examples of any of your accusations. Believing you're right doesn't make you right. wink


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:21 AM
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Phanteros
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Its a good thing Factpile isn't the law of the internets


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fear the shade Knight

Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:22 AM
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ScreamPaste
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It's a great deal more reliable than FC or BT, Phanteros.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:23 AM
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Burning thought
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ScreamPaste

Also, BT, I love how you have no examples of any of your accusations. Believing you're right doesn't make you right. wink


This is not a counter yet to any arguments presented, go get countering otherwise youve nothing left to give to this thread and you concede?


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:23 AM
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ScreamPaste
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The problem is you made no argument, you simply claimed I was wrong, in a logn drawn out fashion, and never once proved any of your points.

Cite an occasion where you've actually proven a point, or stop trolling. Either one's good with me.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:25 AM
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fascistcrusader
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I'm afraid the truth isn't a fallacy.

Fact: Nintendo fans here and on other boards laugh at your fan wank.

Fact: You've never managed to convert a single person to your way. Of thinking, you rely soley on outside help to make it look less one sided.

Fact: All of you math is based on flawed assumptions and doesn't coincide with what the games actually show us.

There is nothing false in the above, but as usual you're too ashamed to admit it and will just try to save face by saying "lolfalisees"


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:28 AM
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ScreamPaste
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quote:
Fact: Nintendo fans here and on other boards laugh at your fan wank.

Nintendo fans =/= Zelda fans and these people haven't mounted any proper argument.
quote:
Fact: You've never managed to convert a single person to your way. Of thinking, you rely soley on outside help to make it look less one sided.

Cause you've convinced soooo many people Sephiroth is a light speeder capable of unleashing the power of an exploding star

Fact: The above is nothing but a drawn out way of saying "People disagree, so you must be wrong." Annnd you've made no argument, disproved nothing, made personal attacks, and insisted I set up sock accounts ect ad nauseum despite it being proved otherwise. GJ.

quote:
Fact: All of you math is based on flawed assumptions and doesn't coincide with what the games actually show us.
Care to point out one of these flaws? You never do.


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The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead

But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.

Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:32 AM
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Burning thought
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The problem is you made no argument, you simply claimed I was wrong, in a logn drawn out fashion, and never once proved any of your points.

Cite an occasion where you've actually proven a point, or stop trolling. Either one's good with me.


"sigh" trying to actually dodge answering any arguments?

Ok because I am bored I have compiled how youve been beaten.

I proved you wrong in the argument over toonforce as soon as we see Link (In toon form no less) flying into the atmosphere from a firecracker esque explosion and sliding down the castle wall once hitting it like a "bug on a windowscreen" with a squeek as Sin put it.


I proved you wrong in the argument over the physical legitimacy of the Pillar feat as soon as we see Link lift it at an angle that was ridiculous and would have fallen but more importantly hold it on legs and body not enhanced in strength or durability. This also hooks in with toonforce, and how this game is not to be taken seriously for its physics.

I proved you wrong in your calculations and exceptions on a number of occassions such as:

Iron boots- you calculated the Goron at 200 tonnes no? wrong, because iron would not take that force, Gorons could be hollow and more importantly, Links whole leg would shatter. You even squirmed and made an exception like you often do this exception involved how the boots had to be (for your argument to work) of a different material.

Links weight according to a Puzzle in the same game as the boots is also only 5x more with iron boots. Either the games physics are repelled by toonforce or your math is wrong.

Again the pillar feat you make an exception for Links durability/strength based on nothing, theres no indication that within the games own canon that Link is actually physically stronger than a man by default or more durable yet you suddenly assume to make your argument work that he can naturally take thousands of tonnes of PSI.

You fail to counter the fact Link sighned/grunted with tension as he lifted it, with only 75k jouls of kinetic energy. If he finds that hard, you fail to actually counter how he could possibly within realistic physical constraint (and not Toonforce like I have proven) toss it 100m/s.

I Proved you wrong with the whip feat, or more importantly you proved yourself wrong as theres no feat to speak of.

one of your major flaws is that you calculate all this specific math in a fiction universe with countless stated exceptions (meaning you had to make exceptions for your math to work) and then you assume your fiction has to be logical (it does not, its a fiction).

even worse you forget LoZ is based around the whole time on exploraton, puzzle solving and item finding. These puzzles would mean nothing to a link who could dig his way, smash his way or w/e through all the puzzles. Your math even if it was not full of flawed nonsense annd YOUR OWN exceptions is still in contradiction with the games logic. Link wouldnt need shields, swords etc if he was as strong or as durable as you claim.

You think your version of LoZ is the only correct one. Many people who have played it here from Sin, Odins wrath, Scenario they either dont use the feats youve tossed together or disregard your feats entirely because its obviously nonsense. FC has played it also yet you think your version of LoZ is correct? your arguments lie solely on your version of the game, yet others who have played it and have their own opinions need to be wrong for you feats to work....


You continue to claim Link is victorious while ignoring other characters, you act as if all Links item appear and activate instantly while forgetting Link is slower, vulernable and weak against the superior Team 2 who have attributes to escape all of Links powers.


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Last edited by Burning thought on Feb 13th, 2010 at 01:44 AM

Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:38 AM
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Phanteros
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
It's a great deal more reliable than FC or BT, Phanteros.


ultimately I trust MVC,OBD, Comicvine than what Factpile comes up with.

edit: but Yeah it is better than BT or FC


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fear the shade Knight

Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:41 AM
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fascistcrusader
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Sorry champ, but people aren't just disagreeing with you out of some LoZ racism, most of us are big fans of it. We disagree because the common sense lobe of our brain hasn't been eaten away by the cancer of fanboyism.

The gods of FF VII have made a canon statement that Sephiroth has lightspeed movement and an attack with an expanding sar's power. The creators are right, no matter how much you stamp your feet. You, on the other hand, have nothing but numbers pulled straight from your arsehole.

I'm afraid I'm still right even after you throw a temper tantrum.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:42 AM
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quote:
I proved you wrong in the argument over toonforce as soon as we see Link (In toon form no less) flying into the atmosphere from a firecracker esque explosion and sliding down the castle wall once hitting it like a "bug on a windowscreen" with a squeek as Sin put it.
You used toonforce as a cop-out. Link in a canon cutscene was blasted across the great sea, and just fine.

quote:
I proved you wrong in the argument over the physical legitimacy of the Pillar feat as soon as we see Link lift it at an angle that was ridiculous and would have fallen but more importantly hold it on legs and body not enhanced in strength or durability. This also hooks in with toonforce, and how this game is not to be taken seriously for its physics.


You did not. You claimed out of ignorance and your own lack of physics understanding that Link could not have done it within the confines of physics. You were wrong. That's an argument from ignorance.

Additionally, I've expaliend a hundred times how you'r insistance on the gauntlets only adding strength to his arms, and not the rest of him, is a logical fallacy. Here's why:

Link's entire body supports the pillar, in a canon cutscene. Thus, it is this strong, and either gets the power from the gauntlets OR already had it. You choose.

Link did throw the pillar. These are canon, so not defy physics, and you're using a figure of speech fallacy to try and prove your point.

quote:
41. Figure of speech
This is when a person confuses a saying which is not meant to be literal, with a literal meaning.

Example: “Mr. Popo said Goku could move faster than lightning. That means he could move at relativistic speed.”

The person in this example is ignoring the fact that “lightning speed” or “faster than lightning” are very common figures of speech that rarely ever denote actual speed of that level.


You cannot make an argument from ignorance and expect to actually be right. You've also claimed, since it's apparently impossible for Link to throw the pillar (he did.) that Link's maximum strength is what it takes to lift it. You argued this in the face of a cutscene which proved otherwise.


quote:
Iron boots- you calculated the Goron at 200 tonnes no? wrong, because iron would not take that force, Gorons could be hollow and more importantly, Links whole leg would shatter. You even squirmed and made an exception like you often do this exception involved how the boots had to be (for your argument to work) of a different material.


I never once squirmed, as you put it. Every time I bring up the boots, I mention that they're misnamed and oughtta be named "Boots of misleading mass to volume ratios +5".

quote:
Again the pillar feat you make an exception for Links durability/strength based on nothing, theres no indication that within the games own canon that Link is actually physically stronger than a man by default or more durable yet you suddenly assume to make your argument work that he can naturally take thousands of tonnes of PSI.
He shows this on several occasions, and the holder of the ower of one of the three goddesses of Hyrule is hardly a normal person. In that same game you mention, Link's sword is struck out of his hands by Ganon. That would have liquified a normal man. This is not an exception. GJ Ignoring every durability feat ever.

quote:
You fail to counter the fact Link sighned/grunted with tension as he lifted it, with only 75k jouls of kinetic energy. If he finds that hard, you fail to actually counter how he could possibly within realistic physical constraint (and not Toonforce like I have proven)
Link grunts when he goes fishing. All it shows is that he moved the pillar under his own power. Also he /did/ throw it. You cannot possibly actually believe this feat is "toonforce" either. Once again, you stare straight at a cutscene, decide you don't like it, and scream toonforce. This Link doesn't even have the WW design, where's your argument in favour of it being roonforce? Claiming it as such does not make it so. OoT is a very serious game.


so, the short version? You're wrong, just very stubborn.

quote:
even worse you forget LoZ is based around the whole time on exploraton, puzzle solving and item finding. These puzzles would mean nothing to a link who could dig his way, smash his way or w/e through all the puzzles. Your math even if it was not full of flawed nonsense annd YOUR OWN exceptions is still in contradiction with the games logic. Link wouldnt need shields, swords etc if he was as strong or as durable as you claim.

War also does puzzles in his game, most stolen directly from Zelda. Hey, wait a second... You're making an argument from gameplay! /eyeroll.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:50 AM
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Cyner
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Burning thought
Wall of Text


Even if his arguments were wrong(which I don't think they are) this entire argument here is saying that every single game character ever is using toonforce because they all have the exact same mechanisms in place in their games. So this is not you proving him wrong, this is you saying that: Even though the character clearly did a feat it's impossible because it would be impossible in real life.

You are the one who has proven yourself not to be taken seriously in any manner whatsoever. Other people have made arguments that are 9001 times better against Shin's assessment of Link's strength than you have here. Please take like two days to really ponder what you're going to post before you do it. You just end up looking really pathetic, a lot.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:52 AM
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ScreamPaste
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quote:
Sorry champ, but people aren't just disagreeing with you out of some LoZ racism, most of us are big fans of it. We disagree because the common sense lobe of our brain hasn't been eaten away by the cancer of fanboyism.

The gods of FF VII have made a canon statement that Sephiroth has lightspeed movement and an attack with an expanding sar's power. The creators are right, no matter how much you stamp your feet. You, on the other hand, have nothing but numbers pulled straight from your arsehole.

I'm afraid I'm still right even after you throw a temper tantrum.
Again you fail to recognise hyperbole, bad translations, and figures of speech. GJ.

Also, I never threw a temper tantrum, or claimed LoZ racism? That's you making crap up again.

And I should add one more thing: You've never proved me wrong, you ignore what I say because you choose to. Not because it's wrong.


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The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead

But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.

Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:53 AM
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fascistcrusader
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LOL, so the creators of a game are to stupid to know what their creation can do but the guy who's never gone through the series is like an FF VII encyclopedia. Stop embarrassing yourself, sport.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:56 AM
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ScreamPaste
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Guess how many times people other than me have sunk supernova on this forum? More times than you can probably count. It's one of the best known fan-wanks in VG history.


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The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead

But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.

Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 01:57 AM
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Sorry chief, but you haven't debunked anything. The creators would be right if they said that Tifa wasn't the real Tifa, but a transexual serial killer stalking Cloud. They have the final say, even if your little head has trouble with the concept.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 02:03 AM
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Burning thought
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You used toonforce as a cop-out. Link in a canon cutscene was blasted across the great sea, and just fine.



You did not. You claimed out of ignorance and your own lack of physics understanding that Link could not have done it within the confines of physics. You were wrong. That's an argument from ignorance.

Additionally, I've expaliend a hundred times how you'r insistance on the gauntlets only adding strength to his arms, and not the rest of him, is a logical fallacy. Here's why:

Link's entire body supports the pillar, in a canon cutscene. Thus, it is this strong, and either gets the power from the gauntlets OR already had it. You choose.

Link did throw the pillar. These are canon, so not defy physics, and you're using a figure of speech fallacy to try and prove your point.



You cannot make an argument from ignorance and expect to actually be right. You've also claimed, since it's apparently impossible for Link to throw the pillar (he did.) that Link's maximum strength is what it takes to lift it. You argued this in the face of a cutscene which proved otherwise.




I never once squirmed, as you put it. Every time I bring up the boots, I mention that they're misnamed and oughtta be named "Boots of misleading mass to volume ratios +5".

He shows this on several occasions, and the holder of the ower of one of the three goddesses of Hyrule is hardly a normal person. In that same game you mention, Link's sword is struck out of his hands by Ganon. That would have liquified a normal man. This is not an exception. GJ Ignoring every durability feat ever.

Link grunts when he goes fishing. All it shows is that he moved the pillar under his own power. Also he /did/ throw it. You cannot possibly actually believe this feat is "toonforce" either. Once again, you stare straight at a cutscene, decide you don't like it, and scream toonforce. This Link doesn't even have the WW design, where's your argument in favour of it being roonforce? Claiming it as such does not make it so. OoT is a very serious game.


so, the short version? You're wrong, just very stubborn.


War also does puzzles in his game, most stolen directly from Zelda. Hey, wait a second... You're making an argument from gameplay! /eyeroll.


Thats not a counter argument. Thats you claiming that the cutscene is canon, you fail to outline where it "cannot" be toonforce despite the character being a toon, acting like one etc.

Ok you just made a statement and called me ignorant but that does not make it true or invalidate what I said, you did not counter this either. And I am sorry, but the screenshot 5L gave us shows that the game itself says it flows power into his arms (their gauntlets dur, not a whole suit of armour).

A fiction does not have to be logical and this fiction does a lot of illogical nonsense hence the toonforce, you saying "it happened in a cutscene" does not counter the fact its toonforce or that its illogical. Your desperate hope for it being seen as real is not a counter argument.

Their not the choices, other choices could be that the game did not take calculations on the granite, the size of the block and the developers just added it to show strength, not a specific amount or to overhype him to your levels. Another choice could be its toonforce, or close to it and is not physically serious, it does not have to be for the game, only for your argument.

No, I argued that if were talking physical truths(obviously not what the game is focusing on but you seem to want to ignore your own fiction) then if he can just about lift it that far off the ground he could never throw it. Sure he did, but then thats going by the fact its not supposed to be taken seriously, your argument is apprently all games reflect your arguments? sorry but thats not how it works. You cant make exceptions, add strength/durability just because you think it should work to your argument.

Misnamed based on the logical fallacy your making by claiming all games need to be logical even when shown to be illogical? for the sake of your arguments again? "sigh"

YOUR GANON based on your exceptions, logical fallacies and instience on argueing with the games own logic (or lack of) would do that, Ganon by himself has shown very little strength feats, his best are smashing rocks and distegrating equelly featless entities.

No you stare at a cutscene, decide some of its logical and then add whats missing, this is not how fiction works I am afraid. Toonforce is not just design, its doing a feat against logic/physics, which it would be without your (not the games) excemptions.

No in short youve made LoZ into your LoZ where all the logic is based on what you think makes sense and therefore you made calculations which would shatter without exceptions you made, not the game.

The whole game is based on Link finding items and passing puzzles, Link is not a "smash and kill everything I see" like DMC/GoW pretty much is. Your undermining the games baseline construct and Link needing millions of items in his games woudl be contradicted by your super durability/strength/speed feats you think he apprently has.

You pretty much dont like how LoZ works, whether its for or against certain types of logic or toonforce and assume everything is realistic just because it helps your arguments in threads. You then disregard opinions of people who have also played the games and think your the one who is correct? just because you think calculations based solely on your version of LoZ being the correct one is evidence to refute them? pffff....


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Cyner
Even if his arguments were wrong(which I don't think they are) this entire argument here is saying that every single game character ever is using toonforce because they all have the exact same mechanisms in place in their games. So this is not you proving him wrong, this is you saying that: Even though the character clearly did a feat it's impossible because it would be impossible in real life.

You are the one who has proven yourself not to be taken seriously in any manner whatsoever. Other people have made arguments that are 9001 times better against Shin's assessment of Link's strength than you have here. Please take like two days to really ponder what you're going to post before you do it. You just end up looking really pathetic, a lot.


Most games make their own exceptions, Dante is a demon and uses magic, therefore we can sort of belive he can do stupid feats. Kain is a vampire who uses magic and supernatural power, likewise. Kratos is a demigod with power throughout his body....you see where I am going? Link in Screampastes arguments is based on his view of LoZ. You just said Screampaste is wrong using math....ty

Your just complaining now, a little rant because you dont have argument to counter me? thanks for helping Screampaste shovel up his own diseased remains of an argument.....seriously he does not "need" you attempting to help him.


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Last edited by Burning thought on Feb 13th, 2010 at 02:11 AM

Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 02:05 AM
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The Scenario
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So what exactly does "toonforce" mean?

The way I'm seeing it used it seems to mean "you can't do something you've already done because it doesn't make sense."

Screampaste's argument is basically "he did this aleady, and I'm trying to make it make sense."

And then no one is able to agree.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2010 02:10 AM
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