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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: TV Series » Rebels' Empire vs. TCW's Seps


Rebels' Empire vs. TCW's Seps
Started by: The_Tempest

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ares834
Grand Moff

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

How is it OT apologia?


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Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 04:21 PM
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The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

Because to admit that such things are the product of relatively limited technology and choreography might be inexplicably interpreted as a shortcoming for the OT. We can't have that: the OT is perfect in all ways.

So we handwave it as deliberate, stylistic decisions that have no context for real world time. Stormtroopers suck because logically the Galaxy's evil superpower would want their elite troops to be shitty.

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 04:34 PM
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ares834
Grand Moff

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

How does Stormtroopers being bad shots have anything to do with limited technology? They have bad aim so the heroes can survive (like many films). Yes, that's very deliberate.


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Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 04:39 PM
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The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

The extras were moving around and fighting in 1970s cheap plastic helmets and bodysuits. That obviously contributed.

Edit: that's why it's textbook OT apologia. The inability to kill the heroes doesn't mean that stormtroopers have to suck anymore than Vader's inability to defeat them means he sucks. thumb up

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 04:43 PM
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ares834
Grand Moff

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

Except Vader isn't shooting at them and missing every shot.

Now if you want to chalk up the Stormies aim to PIS fair enough. But to pretend it's a limitation due to technology is silly. It's just bad guy aim like in most action films.


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Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 04:51 PM
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The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

Nah, I'm saying that the limited technology at the time helped contribute to the notion that stormies were clods. I'm not saying they would have shot the heroes down if they were wearing a bicycle helmet from 2015 vs one from 1977. I'm saying they would have still missed yet would have still appeared to be more competent or formidable if the choreography and technology had been up to par.

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 04:58 PM
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Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

Tbh the Storms have better aim than most other bad guys I've seen from that time era and their biggest instance of missing was explained and was actually logical if someone takes it into account. But of course a vast majority of people missed this direct context.

Death Star is the biggest instance as to why people think Storms suck...but they literally miss the point of why they were missing, it wasn't just because, there was a viable explanation for it that was stated directly in the film.

I mean the only other instance where you could probably see them shooting and chalk it up to PIS is on Bespin(though to me, I think Vader wanted them all captured considering the hyperdrive was disabled right when Han n co got there. But /shrug.)

Endor you had Storms make accurate shots, 1 of which was while he was driving one handed and had to divide his time between driving, aiming and shooting on a fast speeder bike. The other where 2 Scouts 'captured' Leia(the shots being a diversionary tactic while the other Scout sneaked upon her) and then the 2 shots on R2 and Leia at the Bunker.

Though Thor, I don't think Dave ever commented on Storms shooting ability. Plus I wouldn't take his words at face value, considering he's been contradicting against the evidence and himself.


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Last edited by Zenwolf on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 05:04 PM

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 05:00 PM
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ares834
Grand Moff

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, I'm saying that the limited technology at the time helped contribute to the notion that stormies were clods. I'm not saying they would have shot the heroes down if they were wearing a bicycle helmet from 2015 vs one from 1977. I'm saying they would have still missed yet would have still appeared to be more competent or formidable if the choreography and technology had been up to par.


I don't see how.

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 05:01 PM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
The Scout Troopers during the bike chase gave an incredibly rough time against Luke and Leia, even knocking them both off their bikes.






I'm sure Filoni would put that down to Luke's lack of training sad

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 05:08 PM
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Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I'm sure Filoni would put that down to Luke's lack of training sad


Lack of training....because it's not like before on Tatooine, where he was pretty much soloing Jabba's men and also defeating a Rancor without a lightsaber using just sheer ingenuity quickness.

It's also not like he wasn't fighting in this Rebellion or anything either gaining just general battle experience and learning more Jedi stuff as the comics are showing..suuure Luke lacks training....

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 05:14 PM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I don't think anyone really disagrees with the notion of the First Order being badass and its leadership formidable.
Moreso than Vader and Palpatine. Do you agree with that ?


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Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 05:14 PM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Except Vader isn't shooting at them and missing every shot.

Now if you want to chalk up the Stormies aim to PIS fair enough. But to pretend it's a limitation due to technology is silly. It's just bad guy aim like in most action films.
I agree with this. We have to look at how the heroes survive. What situations were they in ? We don't see them outwitting Vader left and right. We know the heroes will survive no matter how ridiculous but I will say that the rebels episode of Vader getting out piloted by the rebels after the duel escape did bring down his stock in my eyes. That also isn't due to limited technology.


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Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 05:16 PM
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The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

I don't agree that they necessarily will or have to be more powerful/dangerous than Palpatine.

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 05:17 PM
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KingD19
Shai-Gen's Enigmatic Wong

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Land of the Lost


 

Vader didn't get out piloted. He wrecked an entire squadron without a scratch and got caught due to his own people's incompetence and the rebels smarts.

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 05:44 PM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Lack of training....because it's not like before on Tatooine, where he was pretty much soloing Jabba's men and also defeating a Rancor without a lightsaber using just sheer ingenuity quickness.

It's also not like he wasn't fighting in this Rebellion or anything either gaining just general battle experience and learning more Jedi stuff as the comics are showing..suuure Luke lacks training....


Was joking dude.

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 06:09 PM
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Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Was joking dude.


No I know, that post was merely just for Dave if he tries using that argument.

Although tbh again, don't think Dave's word should be taken at face value or at least when it comes to things other than his own characters(and even then..), because he's already been contradicting to the evidence clearly shown.

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 06:17 PM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I don't agree that they necessarily will or have to be more powerful/dangerous than Palpatine.
I know. To me they don't need to make the new big bad in the same vein but he should most assuredly be a bigger deal IMO.


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Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 06:30 PM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by KingD19
Vader didn't get out piloted. He wrecked an entire squadron without a scratch and got caught due to his own people's incompetence and the rebels smarts.
He was outsmarted in the end against their expert pilot. Vader is quite good against the no names though.


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Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 06:30 PM
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The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
I know. To me they don't need to make the new big bad in the same vein but he should most assuredly be a bigger deal IMO.


Nah. All the new Big Bad has to do is prove to be a worthy challenge for the new heroes. Doesn't mean he/she has to necessarily eclipse his or her predecessors. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Depends on the nature of the story.

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 07:52 PM
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|King Joker|
Your Excellency

Registered: Nov 2014
Location: Transcendent


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
The villains being bumbling morons is just what happens in a cartoon aimed at kids. It sucks, but there it is. At least with Rebels it's new characters like Kallus rather than an established bad ass like Grievous.
Just because it's aimed at kids doesn't mean they should dumb down the show, especially when they're aware of all the stupid cliches. Just look at ATLA. Aimed at kids, but the villains were fantastic. It being a kids show is just a poor excuse.


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Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 07:55 PM
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