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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: TV Series » Rebels' Empire vs. TCW's Seps


Rebels' Empire vs. TCW's Seps
Started by: The_Tempest

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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah. All the new Big Bad has to do is prove to be a worthy challenge for the new heroes. Doesn't mean he/she has to necessarily eclipse his or her predecessors. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Depends on the nature of the story.
Well to me just as the starkiller will more than likely eclipse the Death Star the big bad should also follow suit. Snoke may or may not be this trilogy's big bad.


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Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 08:00 PM
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The_Tempest
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The Big Bad of ANH was Tarkin, who used the Death Star to kill worlds. They followed it up with ESB, and Vader, which didn't feature anything that potent. Yet ESB still told a great story and ESB is Vader at his most villainous in the OT.

That's cool if you want Snoke to be > Palps, but he doesn't have to be to tell a good story or to command the Starkiller Base.

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 09:40 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Big Bad of ANH was Tarkin, who used the Death Star to kill worlds. They followed it up with ESB, and Vader, which didn't feature anything that potent. Yet ESB still told a great story and ESB is Vader at his most villainous in the OT.

That's cool if you want Snoke to be > Palps, but he doesn't have to be to tell a good story or to command the Starkiller Base.
That's why I said of the trilogy as Palpatine was the big bad of those three films. That's all subjective and in esb we found out Vader took orders from someone else.

I'm not even sure Snoke is the big bad but if he is I feel he should be more powerful IMO. He doesn't have to be the same kind of political manipulator but when it comes to personal power this is something I'd prefer.


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Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 09:46 PM
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The_Tempest
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That's cool. I don't think he has to be. thumb up

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 09:57 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah. All the new Big Bad has to do is prove to be a worthy challenge for the new heroes. Doesn't mean he/she has to necessarily eclipse his or her predecessors. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Depends on the nature of the story.



thumb up Exactly. Like the Inquisitors in Rebels are threatening to Kanan and crew but wouldn't have been a problem for Anakin and Obi-Wan in TCW.

Likewise even some of the threats they faced in TCW wouldn't have been much of a problem for Yoda or Mace at the time, which is why those 2 were used sparingly.

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 11:09 PM
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The_Tempest
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Exactly thumb up

BTW, I've been skimming through the first episode of the Citadel arc and, again, the Separatists are portrayed to be vastly more formidable against a vastly more capable enemy than the Empire has been against the titular rebels.

TCW had its shortcomings, but Rebels could learn a thing or two from it about beefing up the bad guy... as sad as that is.

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 11:17 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's cool. I don't think he has to be. thumb up
Are you nervous that he might be ?


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Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 11:57 PM
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The_Tempest
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Nah. You nervous that he won't?

Old Post Dec 4th, 2015 12:27 AM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah. You nervous that he won't?
Nah. I'm not even sure he is this trilogy's big bad.


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Old Post Dec 4th, 2015 12:29 AM
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KingD19
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
He was outsmarted in the end against their expert pilot. Vader is quite good against the no names though.



What episode did you watch? Vader wasn't outsmarted, the ships commander was since he gave the command to activate the tractor beam. Vader had no way of knowing he was going to do that, and would have shot the Ghost down if the Commander hadn't been trying to get brownie points and f*cked up in the process.

Old Post Dec 4th, 2015 04:42 PM
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Zenwolf
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by KingD19
What episode did you watch? Vader wasn't outsmarted, the ships commander was since he gave the command to activate the tractor beam. Vader had no way of knowing he was going to do that, and would have shot the Ghost down if the Commander hadn't been trying to get brownie points and f*cked up in the process.


Well Vader wanted them captured as he told the Commander, so the tractor beam was kind of the only way to capture them.

Last edited by Zenwolf on Dec 4th, 2015 at 05:01 PM

Old Post Dec 4th, 2015 04:59 PM
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Beniboybling
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
I feel the exact opposite. Vader, Tarkin, and yes even the GI were far more effective and threatening villains than Ventress, Dooku, or Grievous ever were in TCW.
Not really, Ventress, Dooku & Grievous achieved numerous sucesses throughout the Clone Wars, all Vader, Tarkin and GI have managed to achieve combined is drive a 5-man team of Rebels of Lothal. Though granted Vader soloed a fleet, but he fails to carry the group I feel.

But I agree with Wolf here, plot armor is a factor in there failures. There isn't enough fodder for them to stomp, and they can't pull the "Palpy always wins" card. (Although it's also just poor writing) Which is another factor tbh, Palpy always wins. smokin'


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Old Post Dec 4th, 2015 06:30 PM
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ares834
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Those three also have less losses combined than any single of the Separatist villains you mentioned. More importantly, none of them have any terribly embarrassing losses, like Dooku getting captured by pirates or Grievous getting captured by Gungans. sick Furthermore, GI has defeated Kanan on several occasions and he and Tarkin managed to capture Kanan. So to say that's all they managed to do is quite silly. They've had other victories as well, just none as resounding.


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Last edited by ares834 on Dec 4th, 2015 at 07:00 PM

Old Post Dec 4th, 2015 06:57 PM
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Beniboybling
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Seeing as Kanan then proceeded to escape and the GI perished as a result, I wouldn't say that is a victory. My point is that overall they failed to defeat the Ghost Team, despite being the Empire's best, the only victory the protags didn't recover from being driven off Lothal.

The idea that they've had less losses combined, compared to the Seps, if that is even the case, would only be because the show has fewer seasons.


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Last edited by Beniboybling on Dec 4th, 2015 at 07:11 PM

Old Post Dec 4th, 2015 07:05 PM
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ares834
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And yet, wouldn't that also apply to the CIS victories as well?


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Old Post Dec 4th, 2015 07:15 PM
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Beniboybling
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Not when you consider the contexts, the Empire threw everything they had at the Ghost Team, literally their three most senior agents, and the best they managed to do was capture Kanan, learn nothing from him, and proceed to have him taken back, and lose the GI in the process.

Sure it's a victory, but not a great one, and considering the sheer number of advantages they had, pretty sad.


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Old Post Dec 4th, 2015 07:37 PM
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ares834
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“Everything they had” is a nice bit of hyperbole considering the GE has thousands of SDs…

And sad or not, at least they haven’t been captured by pirates and Gungans.


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Old Post Dec 4th, 2015 07:48 PM
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Beniboybling
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So your saying the response was proportional to the threat?

Not sure how a single embarrassment compares to serial failure.


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Old Post Dec 4th, 2015 08:39 PM
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ares834
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A Jedi led Rebellion on a world important to the DS's construction? Sure. Heck, they should have thrown more at them.

Are you saying that the CIS didn't have serial failure in TCW?

Edit: And the only real loss on the parts of Tarkin and the GI is the season 1 finale.


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Last edited by ares834 on Dec 4th, 2015 at 08:48 PM

Old Post Dec 4th, 2015 08:40 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Due to the weak resistance they were up against. Dooku and the separatist army would steamroll the rebels. The mere fact that the rebels did prevail over the galactic army despite being both numerically and firepower wise outgunned is a testament to the arrogance of the galactic empire that came from the emperor all the way down through the ranks.


Dooku got captured by Hondo.

That's just pathetic. evil face


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