KMC Forums

 
  REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Already a member? Log-in!
 
 
Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode IV, V & VI » Obi-Wan should've trained Luke wayyy earlier


Obi-Wan should've trained Luke wayyy earlier
Started by: Rebel95

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
Rebel95
Senior Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location:


Rebel95 is online now!

Obi-Wan should've trained Luke wayyy earlier

Why the hell didn't OB1 just train Luke from birth? That way he would be less prone to fall to the darkside like Anakin did, and he would be way more experienced and a better weapon against the sith.

Old Post Jan 15th, 2016 06:43 AM
Click here to Send Rebel95 a Private Message Find more posts by Rebel95 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

Because training Jedi from birth was never the original plan when the OT was made. This was something Lucas came up with when he was writing the PT.


__________________

Old Post Jan 15th, 2016 09:11 AM
Click here to Send queeq a Private Message Find more posts by queeq Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

That and Owen wouldn't allow it soo....also he seemed to have did fine regardless.


__________________
"My tolerance is fairly inelastic. Don't try to stretch it."
―Carlist Rieekan

Old Post Jan 15th, 2016 01:25 PM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
Time Master

Registered: Jul 2006
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Because training Jedi from birth was never the original plan when the OT was made. This was something Lucas came up with when he was writing the PT.
But in ESB Yoda said that Luke was too old to begin the training(he nearly refused to train Luke all together because of this.) So even if we don't want to assume the Jedi training could have started as early as birth, it definitely could have started much sooner than it did--even in the OT.


__________________


"Who cares what world we're on? Just sit back and enjoy the story..."

Old Post Jan 15th, 2016 04:28 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
cdtm
@#$%

Registered: Apr 2007
Location: United States


 

Possibly. Lucas has enough obvious revisionist examples where it's much more likely he was making it up as he went along, imo.

Take the kids training with helmed blast shields and probe ball. Just like Obi Wan did with Luke!

Because, the guy who didn't believe in Jedi was carrying around Jedi training instruments in his ship?


__________________

Old Post Jan 15th, 2016 04:54 PM
Click here to Send cdtm a Private Message Find more posts by cdtm Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
But in ESB Yoda said that Luke was too old to begin the training(he nearly refused to train Luke all together because of this.) So even if we don't want to assume the Jedi training could have started as early as birth, it definitely could have started much sooner than it did--even in the OT.



thumb up


We'll have to go with the reason explained at the end of ROTS. That the kids had to be kept in hiding until the time was right (a time like when there's a rebellion which Luke has joined).

Because when such powerful potential force users begin their training, Palpatine will sense that disturbance in the Force, as he did in ESB.

Old Post Jan 15th, 2016 06:26 PM
Click here to Send Darth Thor a Private Message Find more posts by Darth Thor Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
But in ESB Yoda said that Luke was too old to begin the training(he nearly refused to train Luke all together because of this.) So even if we don't want to assume the Jedi training could have started as early as birth, it definitely could have started much sooner than it did--even in the OT.


Yes, people bring that up. But Luke was about 20-23 years old. Maybe the best age to start trying is somewhere in the teens: like 16-17 years old.

It always felt that way, since OB1 told Yoda he was once reckless, too. Now, a four year old kid being reckless??? That doesn't make sense.


__________________

Old Post Jan 16th, 2016 11:45 AM
Click here to Send queeq a Private Message Find more posts by queeq Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
Time Master

Registered: Jul 2006
Location:


 

^ Yeah, where the OT is concerned, that's kind of what I was getting at.

Though training someone from near-birth makes a lot more sense, tbh. By the time they've become a teenager(and beyond), most people already have well established self-imposed limitations/mental-blocks in place. It's simply much harder for them to grasp the notion that they can perform the impossible.

Beginning the training from a very young age means they are far more receptive to the "there is no try" mentality.


__________________


"Who cares what world we're on? Just sit back and enjoy the story..."

Old Post Jan 16th, 2016 04:23 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Bentley
Hero Class

Registered: Dec 2006
Location: France


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
thumb up


We'll have to go with the reason explained at the end of ROTS. That the kids had to be kept in hiding until the time was right (a time like when there's a rebellion which Luke has joined).

Because when such powerful potential force users begin their training, Palpatine will sense that disturbance in the Force, as he did in ESB.


I'd also add that Obi Wan may actually prefer not to train Anakin's family at all. From experience the Skywalkers have proved to be too dangerous to be meddled with, maybe during his years into hiding OB1 tried to train something else or stop Anakin differently?


__________________

Old Post Jan 16th, 2016 06:09 PM
Click here to Send Bentley a Private Message Find more posts by Bentley Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Yeah, where the OT is concerned, that's kind of what I was getting at.

Though training someone from near-birth makes a lot more sense, tbh. By the time they've become a teenager(and beyond), most people already have well established self-imposed limitations/mental-blocks in place. It's simply much harder for them to grasp the notion that they can perform the impossible.

Beginning the training from a very young age means they are far more receptive to the "there is no try" mentality.


Is it? Taking kids away from their parents makes really good completely screwed up people. It's one of the worst concepts in the SW universe.

It's like with many talents: if you don't CHOOSE for something you will never reach full potential. Pro sportsmen are people who choose for a professional sports future when they're over twelve years old. That would make a lot more sense to me.


__________________

Old Post Jan 16th, 2016 08:55 PM
Click here to Send queeq a Private Message Find more posts by queeq Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
Time Master

Registered: Jul 2006
Location:


 

You'd think so. However, that method of recruitment/training enabled the Jedi Order to flourish over the years, so it definitely worked... And worked well. The Jedi of the PT were, after all, among the finest the Order had ever produced.

Anywho, if children begin the training early enough, they wouldn't remember much of their life before the Order anyway. And while an exact --or 'optimal'-- age was never given as to when a child was recruited, Anakin, who was 9y/o in TPM, was considered "FAR too old" to begin the training... So we know children were initially recruited into the Order at a much younger age than 9.

Sounds cold(and it is), but protection is protection, I guess. /shrug


__________________


"Who cares what world we're on? Just sit back and enjoy the story..."

Last edited by Galan007 on Jan 16th, 2016 at 09:16 PM

Old Post Jan 16th, 2016 09:12 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

Err... dude. This is a movie. It's someone who came up with it. The PT isn't 'proof' that it worked.

It's a silly concept and quite cruel to children.


__________________

Old Post Jan 16th, 2016 09:30 PM
Click here to Send queeq a Private Message Find more posts by queeq Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

Despite being cruel, would you wanna live with someone who isn't able to control said mystic power, lashing out at you with it and being able to kill you without so much hesitation?

I mean there's cons to both sides here, though one is worse than the other, because said person could end up being shunned by their fellows for being labeled as a freak of nature, or outright killed because the people are scared or what said person can do. Or said person could end up killing everyone, due to being labeled as a freak and ridiculed.

Not saying it always happens, but there is that possibility.


__________________
"My tolerance is fairly inelastic. Don't try to stretch it."
―Carlist Rieekan

Last edited by Zenwolf on Jan 16th, 2016 at 09:42 PM

Old Post Jan 16th, 2016 09:38 PM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
Time Master

Registered: Jul 2006
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Err... dude. This is a movie. It's someone who came up with it. The PT isn't 'proof' that it worked.
It is absolutely proof that it worked, imo. Like I mentioned above: the Jedi Order wouldn't have flourished like we saw in the PT, if the Order's methods of recruitment/training didn't work very well.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
It's a silly concept and quite cruel to children.
Maybe. But from an in-universe POV the concept was still very effective, and produced quality Jedi.


__________________


"Who cares what world we're on? Just sit back and enjoy the story..."

Old Post Jan 16th, 2016 11:47 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
It is absolutely proof that it worked, imo. Like I mentioned above: the Jedi Order wouldn't have flourished like we saw in the PT, if the Order's methods of recruitment/training didn't work very well.


OKay... we have a weird fanboy here... Maybe I should break it to you: Star Wars is FICTION!


__________________

Old Post Jan 17th, 2016 01:12 PM
Click here to Send queeq a Private Message Find more posts by queeq Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
Time Master

Registered: Jul 2006
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
OKay... we have a weird fanboy here... Maybe I should break it to you: Star Wars is FICTION!
'Fanboy' is a rather disrespectful insult for a mod(of all people) to call another member who was having a civilized discussion.

Is this forum not dedicated to discussing a purely fictional franchise? Why in the heck would I cling to real world ideologies here? I specifically said in my last post that my opinion is based on how things work from an 'in-universe POV'.

There's no need to bash/flame me for giving a perfectly reasonable, and moreover logical opinion regarding the question posed in the OP.


__________________


"Who cares what world we're on? Just sit back and enjoy the story..."

Last edited by Galan007 on Jan 17th, 2016 at 04:27 PM

Old Post Jan 17th, 2016 04:22 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

We were discussing the concept of training Jedi from a very early age (like two) and that Lucas changed his mind about the best age to be trained between OT and PT.

And then you say: the PT proves that training them from kids works great! I mean, that is really weird.


__________________

Old Post Jan 17th, 2016 04:32 PM
Click here to Send queeq a Private Message Find more posts by queeq Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
Time Master

Registered: Jul 2006
Location:


 

I'm not saying that pulling children from their families at a very young age isn't cold(it obviously is.) I'm just saying that, from an in-universe POV, this method of recruitment/training obviously worked very well, because the Jedi Order was at its peak in the PT. That much isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

Maybe recruiting force-sensitives at an older age would work better. Who knows? Although I'd think if that were the case, the Order would have adopted that method instead. /shrug


Not sure why you think it's so weird for me to reference facts from the series... In a forum dedicated to discussing facts from the series..? confused


__________________


"Who cares what world we're on? Just sit back and enjoy the story..."

Last edited by Galan007 on Jan 17th, 2016 at 04:48 PM

Old Post Jan 17th, 2016 04:41 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

Having Jedi trained from very early on was a choice by Lucas, who changed his mind between the two trilogies. If someone doesn't stand a chance to amount to anything in Jedi training if you don't start at a very early age, why does OB1 send Luke to Yoda.

And Yoda says: "only a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader. And the Emperor." Yet, Luke defeats Vader. So in OT terms it is possible to be great as a Jedi without all that silly remote fighting as kids with Millennium Falcon helmets.

Now, the PT is often used to show where the OT doesn't make sense. Using the PT elements as proof. But the OT predates the PT. And the fact that stuff got changed after the fact kinda made the OT weird.

It's like the lightsaber fights. Many martial arts sword fighters consider the PT fights as utterly ridiculous. In fact, the ANH fight probably the most realistic based on the nature of the weapon. Twirling and swirling makes one vulnerable and with a weapons that doesn't take much force to chop off your leg, that is plain dumb. It doesn't make sense to fight that way.

Just as it doesn't make sense to abduct kids from their parents and commit them to a life without passion and sex.


__________________

Old Post Jan 17th, 2016 08:09 PM
Click here to Send queeq a Private Message Find more posts by queeq Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

Trying to apply RL fighting is pointless to fictional fighting, I don't know why people do this.


__________________
"My tolerance is fairly inelastic. Don't try to stretch it."
―Carlist Rieekan

Old Post Jan 17th, 2016 08:31 PM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 03:31 AM.
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< Contact Us - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Forum powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.