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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode IV, V & VI » Obi-Wan should've trained Luke wayyy earlier


Obi-Wan should've trained Luke wayyy earlier
Started by: Rebel95

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Galan007
Time Master

Registered: Jul 2006
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
And Yoda says: "only a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader. And the Emperor." Yet, Luke defeats Vader. So in OT terms it is possible to be great as a Jedi without all that silly remote fighting as kids with Millennium Falcon helmets.
You misunderstand, I think. I never said it was impossible to produce great Jedi the way you're describing. I just pointed out that the recruitment/training methods of the PT...callused as they seemed...still worked very well in the long run, and never really failed them. The Jedi Order flourished. Top-notch Jedi arose. Etc.

So from an in-universe POV, said methods served their purpose wonderfully--our personal views of right or wrong do not change this fact. That's all I'm saying.


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Last edited by Galan007 on Jan 17th, 2016 at 09:15 PM

Old Post Jan 17th, 2016 09:05 PM
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Lord Lucien
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Given that all the "trained-from-birth" Jedi in the prequels were functionally retarded, and the one trained from adolescence grew up to be a mass-murdering psychopath who super easily fell to the Dark Side...

And the 20-something Jedi we see trained in the OT successfully resisted the Dark Side and redeemed said mass murderer...


I'm gonna go with the notion that Obi-Wan realized what a batshit crazy idea it is to brainwash babies and make them join your magic cult.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2016 12:06 AM
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Galan007
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There were hundreds(possibly thousands) of Jedi in the PT-era. Not sure what type of standards you have, but you can't expect every one of them to be Yoda. The PT was full of garbage, that's for sure(Lucas dropped the ball hard)--but that doesn't mean the Order as a whole wasn't flourishing. It absolutely was. So yes, their methods were definitely successful in that regard.

And that '20-something Jedi' was Luke Skywalker who, by GL's own accord, was essentially bred to be everything that Anakin was not... And we saw where his own recruitment/training methods got him post-RotJ. evil face


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Last edited by Galan007 on Jan 18th, 2016 at 12:22 AM

Old Post Jan 18th, 2016 12:18 AM
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Bentley
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Registered: Dec 2006
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The Force hates parenthood, so it's kind of logic for it to want little kids excised from their families.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2016 08:12 AM
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queeq
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
So from an in-universe POV, said methods served their purpose wonderfully--our personal views of right or wrong do not change this fact. That's all I'm saying.


Well, the in-universe of SW is contradictory on many counts. It's a universe that's been developed as they made the films. And Lucas changed his mind all the time.

Even though I love SW, as geofiction it's not as well developed as Middle Earth or the Dune universe. Therefor the in-universe logic is not really an argument from me. Because often it doesn't make much sense.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2016 05:27 PM
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Galan007
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You're right. Not much about SW makes sense from an outside perspective(especially where the PT is concerned.)

I'm just trying to stay in-line with the context presented to us, is all. If we don't, we could probably sit here and sideline QB the films all day long, lol.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2016 05:58 PM
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queeq
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Yeah, I know. I think some in-line concepts diminish the power of SW. Jar Jar for instance (especially as 'the key to all this') and training Jedi from birth.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2016 06:31 PM
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Flyattractor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bentley
The Force hates parenthood, so it's kind of logic for it to want little kids excised from their families.



The Force is DISNEY!?


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Old Post Jan 19th, 2016 12:34 AM
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queeq
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It is now. laughing out loud


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Old Post Jan 19th, 2016 08:23 AM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
There were hundreds(possibly thousands) of Jedi in the PT-era. Not sure what type of standards you have, but you can't expect every one of them to be Yoda. The PT was full of garbage, that's for sure(Lucas dropped the ball hard)--but that doesn't mean the Order as a whole wasn't flourishing. It absolutely was. So yes, their methods were definitely successful in that regard.
Did you know wheat is one of the most successful species that ever lived? It's flourishing, but that doesn't make it smart. Which is something you need to be if you're a Jedi Order, "guardians of peace and justice."


The PT Jedi were numerous and plentiful, and got the ever-loving shit murdered out of them by one of the most sinister villains you could put a fake smile over. The PT Jedi apparently didn't know how to not create retarded Jedi. Retarded if trained from birth, psychotic and deranged if trained from 9.



So score 1 for the OT's method of training a grown man. And as for:
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
And that '20-something Jedi' was Luke Skywalker who, by GL's own accord, was essentially bred to be everything that Anakin was not... And we saw where his own recruitment/training methods got him post-RotJ. evil face


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Old Post Jan 20th, 2016 12:16 AM
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Galan007
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So if the Jedi Order's regimen during the PT was to only begin training force-sensitives when they were 20-something, you think Palpatine's machinations/Order 666 would have been less successful? You think changing the age at which a Jedi's training began would have entirely changed how all the events played out in the films, thereby altering GL's vision? Nonsense.

Simply put: the PT Jedi were 'neutered' when they had to be, for the sake of the plot. Not because PT Jedi were trained poorly/incorrectly from an in-universe POV. You're injecting too much of your own PT discontent into this discussion, me thinks.


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Last edited by Galan007 on Jan 20th, 2016 at 02:05 AM

Old Post Jan 20th, 2016 01:53 AM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
GL's vision?
Lol I care about "GL's vision"? I care about what I see onscreen. Retarded/evil PT Jedi.


If training from infancy at worst or childhood at best is what leads to the ridiculous, stupid, dumbass PT Jedi, then I say f*ck that. Go with older training. Onscreen we've seen that one actually work properly. Luke defeats the Dark Side, resists temptation, and redeems a Sith Lord. Alot more than what Yoda, Mace, Qui-Gon and the gang ever did. But they did nothing other than fail and/or die so...



quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Simply put: the PT Jedi were 'neutered' when they had to be, ***for the sake of the plot***. Not because PT Jedi were trained poorly/incorrectly from an in-universe POV. You're injecting too much of your own PT discontent into this discussion, me thinks.
GL's "vision" falls by the wayside when the plot needs it to, eh?


If you've raised/trained a generation of fools, idiots, retards, and psychopaths, you're doing something wrong.


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Old Post Jan 20th, 2016 02:40 AM
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Galan007
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^ Lol. I like how you cherry-picked a few portions of my post, took those excerpts wildly out of context, and then completely dodged the initial question.

Not playing that game. thumb up


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Old Post Jan 20th, 2016 12:46 PM
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queeq
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Location: JP's bed

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Originally Jedi were supposed a kind of monks. Inspired on the Shaolin monks. And monks don't join the monastery after birth.


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Old Post Jan 20th, 2016 06:52 PM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

Gala
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
So if the Jedi Order's regimen during the PT was to only begin training force-sensitives when they were 20-something, you think Palpatine's machinations/Order 666 would have been less successful? You think changing the age at which a Jedi's training began would have entirely changed how all the events played out in the films, thereby altering GL's vision? Nonsense.

Simply put: the PT Jedi were 'neutered' when they had to be, for the sake of the plot. Not because PT Jedi were trained poorly/incorrectly from an in-universe POV. You're injecting too much of your own PT discontent into this discussion, me thinks.
thumb up


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Old Post Jan 20th, 2016 10:59 PM
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Lord Lucien
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Registered: Jul 2005
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Lol. I like how you cherry-picked a few portions of my post, took those excerpts wildly out of context, and then completely dodged the initial question.

Not playing that game. thumb up
I like how instead of countering what I said, you identified a flaw in my style of response and focused solely on that, like you think introducing ad hominem disproves the validity of my words.

Good to know you couldn't think of a counter-point.


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Old Post Jan 21st, 2016 01:56 AM
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queeq
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laughing out loud


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Old Post Jan 21st, 2016 08:16 AM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Good to know you couldn't think of a counter-point.
Lol, irony much? You realize this is exactly what you did when you ignored/dodged my initial question(which entirely defeated your line of 'logic'), right?

Again:
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
So if the Jedi Order's regimen during the PT was to only begin training force-sensitives when they were 20-something, you think Palpatine's machinations/Order 666 would have been less successful?


But yeah, keep trying to move goalposts with your faux-intellectual banter. I'm still not going to play that game. smile


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Last edited by Galan007 on Jan 21st, 2016 at 03:52 PM

Old Post Jan 21st, 2016 03:48 PM
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queeq
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Oh please! wink


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Old Post Jan 21st, 2016 04:46 PM
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Galan007
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?


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Old Post Jan 21st, 2016 04:53 PM
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