Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
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Never mind what you think 'true' power is; this question is about how powerful a Jedi he is. And the answer is- he's not a very good at all, because his training is only just done at the end of ROTJ.
In terms of potency, Luke can't actually do anything at all over than convince his father to kill the Emperor.
'Wars make not one great' is simply Yoda being glib. Yoda's ability in war is sitll demonstration of his power- he's just saying that isn't the underlying reason, and for all its 'not greatness', war destroyed the Jedi and gave the Sith power.
Indeed, the whole point is that Luke achieves despite his lack of power. But only in that his purpose is to open the doors for someone else to act.
Other than that he is whiny, impulsive and not that bright.
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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Dark Side of the Force
Agreed, ush
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Well if you put it like that - He beats is old man, the chosen one, into submission.
He is a powerful Jedi.
That is why Palpatine has his eye on him in the first place.
Even if you specify that the question asks how "powerful a Jedi" he is, I think my comment stands - you still must establish what critera you use to decide what constitutes a "powerful Jedi".
If you think being a powerful Jedi is just about owning people, then fair enough.
Luke's record is lost one, won one, and match abandoned.
There are better and worse records in the SW canon.
If you think it is just about saber skills, then, yeah - Lucas has explained how all we see in the OT is old cripples and semi-trained boys fighting.
But I don't believe for a minute that you all think that there is nothing more to being a powerful Jedi than deadliness and efficiency with a saber.
Ultimately, Luke is also everything the Jedi of the PT should have been.
He is the first and only Jedi to be trained by a Yoda who finally had it sussed, thanks to Qui-Gon Jinn.
I'm not saying Luke was the "most powerful" Jedi - that league table is irrelavent and doesn't exist.
But who from the PT could have achieved what Skywalker acheived?
Which other Jedi would have thrown down the sword?
It was not luck - it was what he had learned form Obi and Yoda.
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him beating the chosen one means absolutely nothing, moss! Being the chosen one doesn't mean he is invunerable, will never die etc. he is good yes, lots of potential but he isn't god, he's just another human
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
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Everything the PT Jedi should have been? Are you joking? He is whiny, impatient, and comes close to falling to the Dark Side. He is a troubled and inefficient Jedi, and there is nothing wrong with the PT equivalents! The only Jedi he is better than in that sense is Anakin, which is not saying much!
He has a lot of potential but is only a half-trained boy who ultimate achives one thing in not going quite as bad as his father did. That is not displaying much outright power or, really, THAT much inner strength or wisdom- because he lacks in those.
Such hero worship for Luke is odd. He's a flawed hero who just manages to not turn bad, not a paragon of virtue. Like I say, the dramatic point is that he succeeds despite his failings, unlike Anakin who was consumed by them.
Just about every single Jedi from the PT could have done the same- they didn't have the failings to begin with. Much more boring dramatically, but it is still so.
And as said- beating the Chosen One means nothing in that sense.
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Last edited by Ushgarak on May 23rd, 2005 at 05:02 PM
btw, mossman, you'll have to watch the EpI DVD again, I think it's in one of those 20 little docs where GL says (or something like that):
"This is the hayday, the golden age of the jedi..."
and (and this is not literally, just what he was getting at):
"We've seen crippled men and old machines (yes, in plural for some reason) fight and young boys that learn from these men but we have never seen a full jedi knight in his golden age fight."
so it's clear that when it comes to fighting Luke is rather poor in it
"Your overconfidence is your weakness," said Luke to the Emperor before the fight began on the new Death Star and Yoda says in ESB, "Always in motion is future."
Last edited by ObiJohnKenobi on May 24th, 2005 at 04:54 PM
that statement can only be true if he has enough potential and got trained by decent masters (and not cripled ones)... though I have yet to see anything in the movies to convince me he's a strong jedi
when luke was born he was given the gift of strenght by the sith lord ruth who was pleased with lukes father for turning to the dark side ,so he gave his son the gift of strenght ,as a thank you
oviously if you were a true fan of star wars u would realise that beeing the one who is ment to bring balance to the force, the force is already very strong in luke. that is why he learns the ways of the force so quickly. by posting a thread like this you are only showing your own ignorence.
I think a major point is getting missed in this thread... I'll give you that his combat training is quite possibly lacking, but in the final Vader fight, Luke doesn't want to hurt his father, and Vader is conflicted over his kid. Each wants to turn the other over to their side. In my opinion, having seen the movie 100 times, both were holding back in that fight. Luke tries to not fight multiple times and is extremely confident the whole time. It isn't until the Emperor provokes Luke that he finally lashes out and takes Vader down. Vader didn't seem to have an answer for this. I'd say, his training was adequate, and the training he did on his own, along with his meditations prepared him for that final battle. Excellent force instincts and a balanced mind... And holds a balance of light and dark within himself. Could he Stand up to Jedi in their prime from the clone wars era? Who knows. He's not as polished, but he is effective.