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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » how many vaders could ... sidious beat?


how many vaders could ... sidious beat?
Started by: aalyasecura95

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The Ellimist
The Shadow

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rebel95
Vader believed he and Luke could overthrow the emporer as of ESB. Rotj Sidious might not be able to take 2 Vaders


I think the plan was for Luke to grow far more powerful.


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Old Post Oct 28th, 2016 06:01 AM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

I imagine 52BBY Sidious and future incarnations would be able to beat Vader.

Right before Plagueis' death? Definitely one, possibly two. After Plagueis' death, he's likely bringing down two Vader's.

By RotS, I think any doubts about his ability to take down 2 Vader's should have evaporated, though I doubt he could beat 3.

RotJ Sidious is probably capable of taking down 3, but with strain.

DE Sidious should beat 3 solidly.

Old Post Oct 28th, 2016 06:42 AM
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The Ellimist
The Shadow

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It's funny how Nova makes all his posts at around this time. Time zones and all.


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Old Post Oct 28th, 2016 06:43 AM
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SunRazer
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Actually, I make most of my posts later at (my) night. A few hours later. Which is when there's actually some people here to interact with.

Nobody's on at this time, lol.

Old Post Oct 28th, 2016 06:44 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

Done with the Lightning and TK sections. TP and Burst I'll do tomorrow. Storm will follow the day after, and maybe I'll finish it then.


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Old Post Oct 28th, 2016 07:01 PM
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Beniboybling
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Registered: Jul 2014
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It doesn't take that long to write up a concession.


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Old Post Oct 28th, 2016 07:21 PM
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Azronger
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Which is why it's not a concession smile


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Old Post Oct 28th, 2016 07:25 PM
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Beniboybling
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It will be. smile


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Old Post Oct 28th, 2016 07:27 PM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
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Have some faith, man


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Old Post Oct 28th, 2016 08:47 PM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

Part 1

First of all, I am perfectly aware that no author would ever write something like this in their works. However, this is not a novel, this forum isn’t a novel, and this thread isn’t a novel. There exists no such rule on KMC that you must make your arguments story-oriented and keep the plot interesting. I am analysing Darth Sidious’ capabilities based off of all the powers he has shown throughout his existence in the Star Wars universe, and am not taking into account whether or not he would abuse these in a novel or not. In other words, I am considering him with his morals off.

Second of all, I don’t think DE Palpatine can literally beat an infinite amount of Darth Vaders, since killing them all would be literally impossible. However, I am of the belief he can solo (almost) any number of Vaders so long as that amount is finite. I believe Palpatine has reached a point where the numbers just stop mattering. He can kill multiple Vaders in the blink of an eye, before they can react, is 100% invulnerable to their attacks, and can spam his attacks almost indefinitely (I am talking about years, decades, even) without tiring or running out of Force reserves.

Endless stamina and Force reserves

In the novel Darth Plagueis, decades before reaching the height of his power, Sidious and his Master fight for hours on end, never tiring:

The location of the planet known to the Sith as Kursid had been expunged from the Republic records in distant times, and for the past six hundred years had been reserved for use as a place of spectacle. Masters and apprentices of the Bane lineage had visited with enough regularity that a cult had come into being in that part of the world based on the periodic return of the sky visitors. The Sith hadn't bothered to investigate what Kursid's indigenous humanoids thought about the visits—whether in their belief systems the Sith were regarded as the equivalent of deities or demons—since it was unlikely that the primitives had yet so much as named their world. However, visiting as apprentice and—more often than not—as Master, each Sith Lord had remarked on the slow advancement of Kursid's civilization. How, on the early visits, the primitives had defended themselves with wooden war clubs and smooth rocks hurled from slings. Two hundred years later, many of the small settlements had grown to become cities or ceremonial centers built of a crude sort, and magical guardian symbols had been emblazoned on the sloping sides of defensive walls. At some point previous to Darth Tenebrous's visit as an apprentice, replicas of the Sith ships had been constructed in the center of the arid plateau that served as a battleground, and enormous totemic figures—visible only from above—had been outlined by removing tens of thousands of fists-sized volcanic stones that covered the ground. On Plagueis's first visit, some fifty years earlier, the warriors he and Tenebrous had faced had been armed with longbows and metal-tipped lances.
That the Sith had never demanded anything other than battle hadn't kept the primitives from attempting to adopt a policy of appeasement, leaving at the ships' perpetual landing site foodstuffs, sacrificial victims, and works of what they considered art, forged of materials they held precious or sacred. But the Sith had simply ignored the offerings, waiting instead on the stony plain for the primitives to deploy their warriors, as the primitives did now with Plagueis and Sidious waiting. Announcing their arrival with low runs over the city, they had set the ship down and waited for six days, while the mournful calls of breath-driven horns had disturbed the dry silences, and groups of primitives had flocked in to gather on the hillsides that overlooked the battleground.

"Do you recall what Darth Bane said regarding the killing of innocents?" Plagueis had asked.

"Our mission," Sidious paraphrased, "is not to bring death on all those unfit to live. All we do must serve our true purpose—the preservation of our Order and the survival of the Sith. We must work to grow our power, and to accomplish that we will need to interact with individuals of many species across many worlds. Eventually word of our existence will reach the ears of the Jedi."

To refrain from senseless killing, they wielded force pikes rather than lightsabers. Meter-long melee weapons used by the Echani and carried by the Senate Guard, the pikes were equipped with stun-module tips capable of delivering a shock that could overwhelm the nervous systems of most sentients, without causing permanent damage.

"The next few hours will test the limits of your agility, speed, and accuracy," Plagueis said, as several hundred of the biggest, bravest, and most skilled warriors—their bodies daubed in pigments derived from plants, clay, and soil—began to separate themselves from the crowds. "But this is more than some simple exercise in our rise to ultimate power, and therefore servants of the dark side of the Force. Centuries from now, advanced by the Sith, they might confront us with projectile weapons or energy beams. But then we will have evolved, as well, perhaps past the need for this rite, and we will come instead to honor rather than engage them in battle. Through power we gain victory, and through victory our chains are broken. But power is only a means to an end."

To the clamorous beating of drums and the wailing of the onlookers, the warriors brandished their weapons, raised a deafening war cry, and attacked. A nod from Plagueis, and the two Sith sped across the plain to meet them, flying among them like wraiths, evading arrows, gleaming spear tips, and blows from battle-axes, going one against one, two, or three, but felling opponent after opponent with taps from the force pikes, until among the hundreds of jerking, twitching bodies sprawled on the rough ground, only one was left standing. That was when Plagueis tossed aside the stun pike and ignited his crimson blade, and a collective lament rose from the crowds on the hillsides.

"Execute one, terrify one thousand," he said.

Hurling the warrior to the ground with a Force push, he used the lightsaber to deftly open the primitive's chest cavity; then he reached a hand inside and extracted his still beating heart.

-Darth Plagueis


Not only is no mention of any exhaustion on the part of the Sith made, Plagueis specifically noted this will be a test of speed, accuracy, and agility, but left out endurance. Coincidence? I think not. The implication is that this exercise did not properly test the limits of endurance of either Sith Lord, and that could’ve fought for much longer than they did.

What this also demonstrates is Sidious’ ability in melee combat. During the entire ordeal, he did not receive a single scratch, and was able to fell each Kursid with surgical precision. Of course I do not believe that this incarnation of Sidious could replicate the feat if he were to face Darth Vaders instead of Kursid warriors, since they are vastly superior combatants. DE Sidious is a different story, however, since just as a Vader is vastly superior to a Kursid, so too is DE Palpatine vastly superior to this incarnation of Palpatine. He is simply too fast for Vader to muster any sort of effective defence, or for him to be able to counter attack. Such was the case with a Kursid warrior, and additional numbers, even in the hundreds, made absolutely no difference. And neither would they make a difference with Vaders.

However, this feat alone does not prove Sidious could keep on fighting for decades, as I previously claimed. Fortunately, there is more evidence: in the RotS novel, the narrator acknowledges the possibility of an eternal stalemate between Palpatine and Vaapad-amplified Mace Windu:

Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.

Impasse.

Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift.

-Revenge of the Sith novelization


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2016 12:54 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

Part 2

Even though some of you may simply dismiss it as another one of the infamous “Stover’s hyperboles,” I am of the belief these so-called hyperboles may be far more literal than the majority think, as I have discovered with other “hyperboles” such as Palpatine being a black hole of the Force, and Anakin Skywalker having the ability to will himself to win and his opponent(s) to lose. There is evidence of this in the mythos, such as Palpatine’s Byss feat:

Almost mindless under the oppression of the Emperor's dark side influence, the people of Byss find their life energies constantly leeched off during the Emperor's vile machinations.

Throughout the worlds submissive to the Empire, Byss is renowned as a paradise, whose siren call multitudes to willingly apply for emigration to its shores. Once there, wrapped in the power of the dark side, the immigrants become completely submissive, their life energy forever enslaved to the mind that would devour a galaxy.

-Dark Empire endnotes


One should note the words “constantly,” and “forever” in the quote. Palpatine could dominate and drain the people of Byss indefinitely while going about his daily life, and there’s no mention of him ever stopping during battles or when he’s employing other Force powers, whether it be low intensity Force lightning in RotJ, or the most destructive Force power in the mythos – Force Storms – in DE. “Constantly” means constantly. No ifs or buts about it. The people who say otherwise argue from their personal incredulity to accept the full might Palpatine’s Force abilities.

A common misconception is that the Byss feat only happened only during the Dark Empire storyline. However, as we can observe from Evasive Action: Recruitment, he started it as early as 19BBY – only a few months after Revenge of the Sith:
(please log in to view the image)

So Palpatine spent 29 years, from RotS to DE, constantly draining (among other things that I will elaborate on later) the ever-growing population of Byss, with no signs of exhaustion. In every novel, comic, or video game that we see Palpatine in and that take place after EA:R, he is performing the Byss feat in the back of his mind, from across the galaxy. Just let that sink in for a moment.

Aside from draining them, Palpatine was also maintaining a planet-wide illusion that everyone lived their lives in complete bliss, nobody knowing that they were actually just fuel for the Emperor:

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/G...gwafjh.png.html

And no, Palpatine did not require the help of his dark side adepts to pull this off – that is another common misconception. Let’s take a look at the source, which supposedly states so:

Years ago, Emperor Palpatine chose Byss as his private retreat, and Imperial architects and engineers were commissioned to build him an opulent palace. Several million humans were allowed to emigrate to the world, where the Emperor and his adepts used the dark side to feed off their life energies. The planet's population eventually reached almost 20 billion, and all outgoing communications were censored by security agents.

-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia


The Adepts were there merely to strengthen Byss’ connection to the dark side, and that’s about the only way they helped Sidious. If you’re wondering about the “the Emperor and his adepts” part, it merely tells us the Adepts drained it with Sidious, not that they helped him. If I eat a slice of cake, and my friend eats another slice, that doesn’t mean I required his help. “Me and my friend ate cake” implies nothing of either helping the other, and neither does “the Emperor and his adepts used the dark side to feed off their life energies.” Them helping him is also outright contradicted by the fact that Sidious could drain Byss from across the frickin’ galaxy by himself for decades with no strain. The Adepts couldn't have possibly aided him when they were on the other side of the galaxy.

I hope this is sufficient proof that Sidious does not tire, no matter what. He can keep spamming his abilities endlessly, so it’s basically impossible for an army of Vaders to outlast him.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2016 12:55 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

Part 3

Immunity to any sort of damage

As I have claimed previously, it is literally impossible for the Vaders to hurt or kill Sidious. This is because Palpatine’s Force defenses are ridiculously more powerful than anything the Vaders can assault him with. Sidious has already tanked the full might of a rage-amped Vader in RotS, yet he did not budge, did not flinch even a millimeter, only smiled:

And you rage and scream and reach through the Force to crush the shadow who has destroyed you, but you are so far less now than what you were, you are more than half machine, you are like a painter gone blind, a composer gone deaf, you can remember where the power was but the power you can touch is only a memory, and so with all your world-destroying fury it is only droids around you that implode, and equipment, and the table on which you were strapped shatters, and in the end, you cannot touch the shadow.
-Revenge of the Sith


However, Darth Vader has more destructive powers at his disposal. His most destructive attack on a single individual is, in my opinion, this:

(please log in to view the image)

The total annihilation of a person down to infinitesimal particles invisible to the human eye, with a simple gesture. As Vader himself would say: “Impressive. Most impressive.” However, he is not the only being in the mythos to have accomplished this. Another one would be none other than the clone of his own apprentice, Starkiller (yes, this is from a cutscene, not gameplay, so it’s canon):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6zIfCrWYsw&t=16m20s

They may have been different powers, but that’s irrelevant. The result is what matters here. And even with lightning of this magnitude, Starkiller’s lightning is still successfully repelled by a lightsaber (yes, I know the main game takes precedence over the Wii version, but in the main game, nobody even tries to block Starkiller’s lightning with a lightsaber, so the following isn’t contradicting it):

(please log in to view the image)

This cannot be said for Darth Sidious, though, who distorted a lightsaber blade by overloading its the energy absorbtion, both in the RotS movie, and the novelization:

(please log in to view the image)

Now Anakin was at Mace's shoulder. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

Palpatine’s eyes glowed with power, casting a yellow glare that burned back the rain from around them. "He is a traitor, Anakin. Destroy him."

"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny."


Why am I bringing this up? Well, during their battle, Yoda managed to deflect Sidious lightning back at him in the junior novelization (this happens off-screen in the movie, so there is no contradiction):

Force lightning spat from the Emperor’s gray fingers, surrounding Yoda in a blue nimbus. But Yoda had faced Force lightning before. To deflect the first bolts, he had to stop his intended strike at the Emperor. Once his initial surprise was over, he reached out to the living Force. The lightning bent, arcing back toward the Emperor.

“Destroy you, I will,” Yoda said grimly. “Just as Master Kenobi, your apprentice will destroy.”

The Sith Lord only redoubled his attack. Hurling Force lightning, the Emperor backed away, to the very edge of the platform. Following him was like walking against hurricane winds. Never had Yoda faced one so strong in the dark side. Before he came within reach, a particularly strong blast knocked Yoda out of the pod.


The only reaction Palpatine gave was to intensify his lightning further. This implies his own Force lightning – the strength of which I just explained – is quite simply insignificant compared to his Force barriers. This feat alone proves he is beyond any Force attack or lightsaber strike Vader could ever even dream of inflicting on him. However, even this potent Force barriers are only a fraction of his full power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DI8kkR9G0Q&t=3m51s

Here he tanks an explosion of Force energy consisting of the combined power of Yoda and himself, who’re stated to be equally powerful:

Yoda’s knowledge of the Force makes him just as powerful as Darth Sidious.

-Mysteries of the Jedi


So he took an explosion twice as potent as his own Force lightning to the face without a scratch. He accomplished this almost three decades before the height of his powers, meaning that his Force defenses in his prime would be even more advanced. Absolutely insane, absolutely beyond Vader.

But what about multiple Vaders? Well, I have never seen a source where Vader uses or is stated to know Battle Meld, so I don’t see how the additional numbers would make a difference, aside from joined telekinetic attacks, but I doubt those will be effective, either. What one must realize here is that only the Vaders in the front lines would be capable of attacking Palpatine, so if Palpatine faces an army of a quadrillion Vaders, he won’t be assaulted by a quadrillion Force waves simultaneously.

The Vaders can choose to attack in a circle like this:

(please log in to view the image)

Or in rows like this:

(please log in to view the image)

In the case of the former, it is a bad formation because if Palpatine dodges a push from a Vader, it will hit another Vader. If all the surrounding Vaders use a Force push at the same time, Palpatine will dodge them by jumping into the air or flying away, resulting in all the pushes colliding with each other. We have seen what happens when two telekinetic attacks of equal strength collide, like this:

(please log in to view the image)

Now imagine a dozen or so Force waves doing the same; the resulting explosion of telekinetic energy would send the Vaders flying all over the place, whereas Sidious would remain unharmed. I other words, there is literally no point in even trying to attack Sidious with the Force with this attack formation. Lightsabers would prove no more useful, since Sidious has tanked more potent attacks like they were flea bites. Trying to batter down his defences this way would take centuries, which is beyond the lifespan of the Darth Vaders. Palpatine would outlast them as a spirit.

The second formation is a better strategy, since their missed attacks would not hit other Vaders. But as with the circle formation, Palpatine would have absolutely no trouble dodging all the attacks they make with the speed he’s boasting. So again, it is pointless to even try to attack him.

If you doubt he would be able to accomplish this, here are showcases of people dodging telekinetic attacks, proving it can be done:

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)

And here is Palpatine using Force Flight:

(please log in to view the image)

Even if they could get a hit in, I doubt it would even do anything. Vader’s most destructive attack < lightsaber plasma < Sidious’ lightning << the explosion. The gap between Vader’s attack and the explosion is enormous, yet Palpatine did not receive a scratch from the latter. I do not believe even ten simultaneous attacks from the Vaders would do any harm, let alone kill him. Even average Force users are incredibly resilient, not to mention Sidious, who has been stated to possess the pain tolerance of Darth Maul, and the ability to survive bisection:

Like his master, Maul is resilient and has the uncanny ability to cheat death, surviving a potentially fatal encounter with Obi-Wan Kenobi on Naboo.

-Studying Skywalkers: Darth Sidious Is Your Master Now


It would take forever to kill Sidious like this, when it would take several dozen of Vader’s most potent attacks combined to cause even a single bruise. And that’s assuming he’ll stay in place and just let them attack him, when in reality he could dodge 999/1000 of their attempts. I have not seen any proof a Vader could spam his attacks indefinitely, like Sidious could. He would outlast them.

I hope this was sufficient proof it is literally impossible for the Vaders to kill Sidious, reducing their chance of victory to zero.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2016 12:56 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

Part 4

Ability to one-shot multitudes


Palpatine has numerous Force powers that he could use to sweep legions of Vaders off the face of the galaxy in an instant. I will now go over each one.

Force Lightning

Sidious has shown he is able to unleash lightning even a combat-ready Yoda has a hard time reacting to. Yoda is among the fastest characters in the mythos, and would dance circles around Vader. He has already proven this when he rendered himself literally untouchable by three Council Masters – each in Darth Vader’s tier of speed:

Three members of the council-Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, and Depa Billaba, excellent fighters all-had come forward and attacked him. Master Yoda had not been armed, and had not seemed to move more than a meter or so, his tread slow and measured. Nevertheless, none of the three had been able to lay a finger on him.

-Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter


But his best speed feat is probably disarming Sidious himself, a being who has also speedblitzed three Council Masters, in just three blows:

An end, I must make. Yoda redoubled the speed of his blows. Palpatine parried one, then another — and then the red lightsaber spun out of his hands and over the edge. Yoda raised his weapon for the final blow.

–Revenge of the Sith junior novel


And yet, two out of three times, this happened:

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)

And actually, in the junior novel (which doesn’t contradict the movie since the scene happened off-screen), where Yoda does manage to react, it was only because Palpatine wasn’t firing them at maximum speed, as indicated by the fact that he doubled their speed after Yoda had already caught them:

Force lightning spat from the Emperor’s gray fingers, surrounding Yoda in a blue nimbus. But Yoda had faced Force lightning before. To deflect the first bolts, he had to stop his intended strike at the Emperor. Once his initial surprise was over, he reached out to the living Force. The lightning bent, arcing back toward the Emperor.

“Destroy you, I will,” Yoda said grimly. “Just as Master Kenobi, your apprentice will destroy.”

The Sith Lord only redoubled his attack. Hurling Force lightning, the Emperor backed away, to the very edge of the platform. Following him was like walking against hurricane winds. Never had Yoda faced one so strong in the dark side. Before he came within reach, a particularly strong blast knocked Yoda out of the pod.

-Revenge of the Sith junior novelization


There is not a single instance where Yoda has managed to react to the full speed of Palpatine’s lightning. So essentially, Sidious can “speedblitz” Yoda-tiers, not with his lightsaber, but with his Force abilities. Vader would never even see it coming.

And yes, I am aware that he did tank the full power of Sidious’ lightning in RotJ, and did not die instantly, only later due to his injuries. I concede that this is one of the few powers that Sidious possesses which Vader can tank for a short amount of time. Not for very long, though, since, although after a significant struggle, he was eventually downed by Starkiller’s lightning barrage, which is several tiers below the Emperor’s. It would take significantly less time than in here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w0rv08AD3c&t=4m55s

Alright, so he can easily defeat a single Vader. But what about an army of them? Well, he has used a Force Lightning Storm:

(please log in to view the image)

Although it may not have been very big, do not mistake it to be Sidious’ limit in that regard. He gets scaling from his Master, Darth Plagueis, who has summoned quite possibly the largest Force Lightning Storm in the mythos, spreading across an entire landscape in an instant:

Getting to his feet, Plagueis extended his long arms in front of him and loosed a storm of Force lightning that crackled over the landscape, igniting fires in the grass.

-Darth Plagueis


In case you don’t think this is impressive, here are some pictures of what could be considered a landscape:

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)

So we are definitely talking about a very large area, that thousands of Vaders could fit into. But what proves Palpatine can do what his Master did? Well, he’s stated to have known all of Plagueis’ secrets even as if TPM:

Sidious served for many decades as the apprentice of Darth Plagueis, learning diligently at the feet of his Master. Once he possessed all of Plagueis' secrets, he retired him.

-Insider 88: Heritage of the Sith


He is also just generally more powerful in the Force than Plagueis, as stated by numerous “most powerful” quotes as well as the quotes proclaiming him to be the strongest Banite Sith – all of which I’m sure you’ve seen too many times to count, so there’s no reason to really believe he would be incapable of what Plagueis did.

Additionally, although the following feat doesn’t happen on-screen, Sidious has recorded his accomplishments in creating Force lightning across galaxy-wide distances:

“Standing watch with the mind, in my meditation of Anger, I have slain my enemies from great distances through the dark side power that permeates the galaxy. I have created lightning and unleashed its destructive fire.”

-Darth Sidious, Book of Anger


“Anger concentrated by Will in the vital center of the body creates a portal, through which vast energies are released. The energies of the dark side of the Force. This is the power I command, now that I am one with the dark side. With these energies, I have slain my enemies across the empty reaches of space. I have created lightning, and unleashed devastating fires.”

-Palpatine’s hologram, Dark Empire


For those who do not believe what the Emperor is saying, there’s no reason for him to be lying here, since he has used more demanding powers such as Drain Life and Force Storm from across the galaxy before. No reason to assume he would be incapable of Lightning as well. So he can essentially summon lightning anywhere on the battlefield, unless the battlefield is larger than a galaxy.

There is literally no way the Vaders win if Sidious decides to use lightning.

Telekinesis

Probably the most “tame” of the Emperor’s combative Force abilities, TK is nonetheless a lethal in his hands.

He demonstrated enormous power when he used TK to bury the Lusankya, a 19-kilometer-long Super Star Destroyer at the edge of Imperial City:

Years before, one of a number of Super Star Destroyers commissioned by the Emperor had disappeared. In fact, as a demonstration of Palpatine's dark side powers, he had buried the Lusankya at the edge of Imperial City.

-The Official Star Wars Fact File 9


Compare this to Starkiller’s – Vader’s rival, albeit ultimately inferior – meager 150-meter-long ship that he disintegrated. Actually, it wasn’t even that large:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t631972.html

Comparing the two ships, Palpatine’s is roughly 130 times larger. And I know Starkilller disintegrated it, which is more impressive that merely manipulating, and that Vader is somewhat more powerful than his apprentice, but as I’ve said earlier, the Emperor was dominating and draining Byss non-stop meaning he wouldn’t have access to his full power basically ever, so it balances out. Regardless, it’s not a contest. You don’t even need to be incomprehensibly more powerful than your opponent to dominate them; twice or thrice is enough. Sidious ragdolls ten Vaders at once and can insta-snap their necks. In addition to this, the Emperor can conjure massive Force repulses and omnidirectional Force waves as an alternative to ragdolling, which would send legions of Vaders flying.

Telekinesis may not be the most effective killing tool at the Emperor’s disposal, but at least it works.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2016 12:56 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

Part 5

Telepathy

Palpatine has already proven himself capable of telepathically influencing Vader, when he fogged the latter’s senses from across the galaxy in a manner that the Emperor muses was “too easy”:

(please log in to view the image)

Then there’s the time he forced Vader to bend the knee from across the galaxy:

Boarding his shuttle, he ordered the pilot to lift off. A pity, my son, he thought. You could have joined me and together...we could have destroyed the Emperor and ruled the galaxy in his place. As he stared at the severed appendage in his hands, a sudden flash of insight struck the Dark Lord, realization dawning like the sunrise of Bespin. Perhaps, if you will not be turned, little Jedi, a suitable substitute may be arranged.

Suddenly, Vader was struck to his knees by the horribly powerful voice that rolled like fiery thunder through his brain. The pilots struggled vainly to ignore the Dark Lord's...discomfort.

"Yes, my servant," the voice boomed in his mind, dripping raw evil. "Come to Mount Tantiss, immediately. I shall meet you there, and we will discuss my new trophy."

"Yes...my Master," Vader gasped, feeling an icy stab of dread in his soul, as the Emperor's mocking chuckle still echoed in his mind. His Master had detected his rebellious thoughts. This discussion would be most unpleasant. Most unpleasant indeed.

-Clone B-2332-54


As for completely dominating Force users, his mere hologram almost dominated DE Luke Skywalker:

Palpatine's hologram: ...and I have come to realize that the dark side is my only ally. The dark side is the only means to power.

R2-D2: (beeb beeb)

Luke: Be quiet, R2, I don't care about the time, but can you do someting about the heat? I suddenly... feel... cold...

Palpatine's hologram: My explorations of the Force have revealed to me many wonderful secrets.

Luke: Cold... like a dead hand pressing on my heart...

Palpatine's hologram: I have learned that Anger and Will, when joined together, forge a most unholy and devastating alliance.

Luke: Maybe R2's right... time to leave... but it's like a great weight... pressing down on me... I... can't move... can't... leave...

Palpatine's hologram: Using Anger, I have learned to unlock the hidden reservoirs of the glorious dark side power.

Luke: No...

Palpatine's hologram: Anger concentrated by Will in the vital center of the body creates a portal, through which vast energies are released. The energies of the dark side of the Force. This is the power I command, now that I am one with the dark side.

Luke: Is this what my father felt?

Palpatine's hologram: With these energies, I have slain my enemies across the empty reaches of space.

Luke: I shouldn't... listen...

Palpatine's hologram: I have created lightning, and unleashed devastating fires.

Luke: ...but I can't... stop...

Palpatine's hologram: With this knowledge, I can unleash dark side energies that swirl invisibly around us, even to shatter the fabric of space itself. In this way, I have created Storms.

Luke: Got... to break... free!

R2-D2: (beeb beeb)

Luke: I'm... alright, R2. (panting). This place... is still strong with the dark side. And the presence of the Emperor, even in a hologram, is almost overpowering.

-Dark Empire Audio Drama


Although that attempt failed, it is still massively impressive given it was only a fraction of the Emperor’s full power. Of course, when the Emperor tried again, this time in person, he succeeded:

(please log in to view the image)

Palpatine: Curse you, Jedi! No. A curse is not necessary. I have something better for you. Skywalker! I have broken you. Now, prove yourself worthy of serving me. (Sound of lightsaber activating.)

Luke: Yes, my master.

Palpatine: Bring your sister over to the dark side. You have the power.

Leia: (Sounds of waving lightsabers.) I don't know what he's done to you, Luke, but this time we're really leaving.

Luke: Leia, put the lightsaber away. I don't want to hurt you.

Leia: The last thing I'd do is hurt you, Luke. What's happened to you is not final.

Palpatine: (Palpatine laughs.) He cannot hear you, child. To him, you are a ghost. The faint memory of a former life.

Leia: Luke...listen. (Sound of lightsaber deactivating.) Luke. Oh, what have you done? What's behind his vacant stare?

Palpatine: Why, nothing, my child. Nothing. (Sound of the Force being used. Sound of speech echoing within Luke's mind.)

Luke: Nothing.

Palpatine: You are nothing.

Luke: Where am I?

Palpatine: Alone.

Luke: No. Help me.

Palpatine: There is no one. There is only the dark side.

Luke: I am a Jedi. (Luke screams.)

Palpatine: You are not a Jedi. You are nothing. You have no name.

Luke: My name is Skywalker. (Luke screams.)

Palpatine: You...have...no...name!

Luke: I...

Palpatine: Accept the dark side. You have no name.

Luke: I have no name.

Palpatine: You serve the dark side.

Luke: I serve...

Palpatine: Listen to the voices.

Luke: The voices...

Palpatine: Of the dark side.

Luke: Yes.

Palpatine: The one law is fear. The one fear is power. The one power is hate.

Luke: Hate.

Leia: Luke.

Palpatine: Hate.

Leia: Luke, clear your mind.

Luke: Leia?

Palpatine: The one law is fear. The one fear is power!

Leia: Luke, I'm your sister. I need you.

Luke: My sister.

Palpatine: You are alone.

Leia: Luke, listen to my voice. My child...will be a very great Jedi, because you will train him. You will train all my children in the ways of the Force.

Palpatine: Do not listen!

Luke: The Force... Leia... The Force... I am not alone. I am never alone!
(Sound of Force fades. Sound of voices returning to normal audibility.)

Palpatine: No! This can't be. No one returns from the dark side. You're mine!

Luke: Leia, help me. I've gone too far. I've found knowledge, all the dark things Father knew so well. The ability to control others, to destroy others if he chose, if I chose. Ben warned me; Yoda warned me. But I had to do it, Leia! I had to know what happened to our father! I had to know why he chose the dark side.

Leia: And now you know what happened to our father. It's time to come home, Luke.

Palpatine: Do not listen to her. Listen to the voice of the dark side. Your power is immense.

Luke: No. The powers of control and destruction weren't the only things I found in the dark side, Emperor. I also found great isolation and sadness. I found fear. These are the feelings my father felt. The feelings you feel, in your moments of darkest triumph.

Palpatine: Nonsense! Curse you Skywalkers, both of you! I'll tell you the truth about your father. (Sound of the Force being used. Luke screams. Sound of Force fades.)

Palpatine: The great Darth Vader was a sick man in an iron mask! Yes, that mask inspired terror throughout the galaxy, but the feeble heart within was forever possessed by the impotent side of the Force. You can be far stronger than he was. Dark Jedi, are you going to let your weak sister get the better of you? Get up! I can give you the power to break her. You will kill your sister, if I demand it!

Luke: No! I made a mistake. I thought I had to save the galaxy alone, all by myself. But the way of the Jedi is not a solitary path.

Leia: (Leia gasps.) The Holocron! Luke, the Holocron told me to join with my brother!

Luke: Yes. The Force binds us. Brings us together. Many people are fighting this war together. Our ally is the Force. Through the strength of the Force, your shroud of evil has been lifted from my mind!

–Dark Empire Audio Drama


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2016 12:57 AM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

Fix the image sizes, please.

Old Post Oct 30th, 2016 12:57 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

Part 6

It should be noted Luke only broke free because of the intervention of his sister. He was incapable of this on his own, as supported by the fact that in DE II, Sidious invades his mind again, and Luke, despite knowing it is the Emperor, cannot break free:

(please log in to view the image)

Xecr Nist: We will not make the first attack. I intend to use these.

Tedryn-Sha: Scarab droids?

Nist: Yes. Lovely creations, aren't they? A dozen of them will burrow into Skywalker's flesh, filling him with poison and pain. Then you and one other Dark Jedi will capture Skywalker. I will take the others to steal the children.

Sha: But what if Skywalker detects the scarab droids?

Nist: He will not. The Emperor himself has promised a distraction.
Palpatine's voice: Skywalker...

(scarab droid noices)

Luke: No... No, not the Emperor!

(scarab droid noices)

Palpatine's voice: Skywalker...

(scarab droid noices)

Luke: I destroyed you! You're dead!

(scarab droid noices)

Palpatine's voice: Twice you killed me, twice have I returned... I cannot be destroyed... I am with you in your waking hours...

(scarab droid noices)

Luke: No!

(scarab droid noices)

Palpatine's voice: I am with you in your dreams...

(scarab droid noices)

Luke: No!

(scarab droid noices)

Palpatine's voice: You belong to me!

(scarab droid noices)

Luke: Palpatine, I will fight you!

(scarab droid noices)

Palpatine's voice: Fight me? Skywalker, I have already won! Even now my scarab droids fill you with dark side poison!

(scarab droid noices)

Luke: Scarabs...?

(scarab droid noices)

Palpatine's voice: And you will once again be mine!

(scarab droid noices)

Luke: No! No! No! (screams)

–Dark Empire II Audio Drama


In fact, it is implied Sidious caused Luke nightmares every night after RotJ:

(please log in to view the image)

Luke Skywalker possesses more telepathic power than Darth Vader. He demonstrated this when he utterly mind-raped Cronal, one of Palpatine’s strongest servants:

But where there should have been Dark, he found only light.

White light, brilliant, blinding, a young star born within his head. It seared his mind, blasting away even his memory of darkness. He recoiled convulsively, like a worm encountering red-hot stone. This was more than light; it was the Light.

It was the power to drive off the Dark.

This was inconceivable. What could heat his absolute zero? What could banish his infinite night?
You should know. The voice of the Light was not a voice. It spoke without speaking, communicating not with words, but with understanding. You invited me here.

Skywalker? This light was Skywalker?

In the instant he thought the name, Cronal saw him: a shape of light, absolute, uncompromising, kneeling within the Election Center in the darkest heart of the Shadow Base, his hands solemnly interfolded with the massive paws of Kar Vastor. He had linked his shadow nerves to Vastor's, and through the intimate connection between Vastor and Cronal he had somehow stretched forth to touch the Shadow Lord himself.

In the Dark, Cronal saw Skywalker smile.Thank you for joining me here. I was a little worried you might get away with that silly crown of yours.

This was impossible. This must be some hallucination, a twisted product of his Darksight run amok. He was in hyperspace! Hyperspace did not, could not, interact with realspace—

I was with Ben Kenobi in hyperspace when he felt the destruction of Alderaan. No wall can contain the Force.

The Force, the Force, these pathetic Jedi kept nattering on about the Force! Did any of them even faintly comprehend how naive and foolish they were? If any of them had ever had so much as a glimpse of the real power of the Dark, that glimpse would have snuffed their tiny minds like candles in a hurricane—

Was my tiny mind snuffed? I must have missed that part.

Cronal could sense gentle amusement, like a tolerant uncle indulging a child's tantrum. Fury rose within him like molten lava climbing a volcanic fault. This simpleminded youth had fooled himself into believing his paltry light could fill the infinite Dark? Let him shine alone within eternal night. Cronal opened himself wholly to the Dark, cracking the very gates of his mind, expanding the sphere of his power like an event horizon yawning to swallow the universe. He surrounded Skywalker's light, and with a shrug of power he consumed it.

In this arena, minds naked to the Dark contending in nonspace beyond even hyperspace, there was no question of age, or health, or physical strength. Here the only power that counted was the power of will. Skywalker and his so-called Force could never match Cronal's mastery of the Way of the Dark. On this level, Cronal was Blackhole. From his grip no light could escape.

Escape? Me? Did you forget that you're the one who's running away?

Cronal suddenly felt, unaccountably—and unpleasantly—warm. At first he dismissed this unwelcome sensation; he was too experienced a servant of the Dark to be distracted by a minor malfunction in his life-support settings. But gradually he became aware that his body—specifically, his body's skin—did not seem to be warm at all. It was, in fact, chilly. And damp. As though he had broken out, somehow, in a cold sweat.

He turned his mind back to the Dark, and became again the ultimate black hole. He examined the abyss of darkness he had become and found it to be flawless. Perfect. The ultimate expression of the absolute power of the Dark. This boy, this infantile Jedi-ling, had thought his meager light could stand against that power? Cronal's black hole had swallowed every last lumen; Skywalker's light was gone forever. His puerile Force trick of light had done to Cronal nothing whatsoever.

That's because I'm not trying to do anything to you. I'm doing something through you.

What? How could Skywalker still speak?

A creeping dread began to poison Cronal's smug satisfaction. What if Skywalker was telling the truth? What if the boy had been so easily vanquished because he had intended to be? He had already used his tiny gift of the Force to forge a link through Kar Vastor to Cronal...what if his light had not been destroyed by falling into the black hole that was Cronal's mind? What if his light had simply passed through?

That's where you dark siders always stumble. What's the opposite of a black hole?

Cronal had heard this cosmological theory before: that matter falling into a black hole passes into another universe...and that matter falling through black holes in other universes could pass into ours, bursting forth in pure, transcendent energy.

The opposite of a black hole was a white fountain.

He thought, I've been suckered.

The Sith alchemy that had created the Shadow Crown had imbued it with control over meltmassif in all its forms; to drown Skywalker in the Dark, Cronal had opened a channel into the Crown. Through the Crown. Through the Shadow Crown, Skywalker's light could shine upon every crystal of darkness. Every shadow stormtrooper. Every gravity station. Every millimeter of the shadow web of crystalline nerves in his body, and Vastor's, and—

And Cronal's own!

With a snarl, he yanked his mind back into his body; it would require only a second to pull the Crown from his head. Or it would have, if he could have made his arms work...

In the shimmery glow from the viewscreens within his life-support capsule, Cronal could only sit and watch in horror as his skin began to leak black oil. This black oil flowed from every pore, from his ears and nose and mouth and eyes. This black oil drained even from the channels within the Shadow Crown. And not until the last drop of it had left his body could Cronal even take a breath.

He did not, however, have time for more than a single breath he fore the meltmassif rehardened, encasing him wholly in a sarcophagus of stone. The asteroid of meltmassif around his chamber melted, and its shreds vaporized as they fell from the hyperdrive zone. Very soon, the hyperdrive itself fell away, as it had been mounted on the stone, rather than on the chamber. The chamber, no longer within the hyperdrive's protective envelope of reality, simply dissolved.

Cronal had enough time to understand what was happening. He had enough time to feel his body lose its physical cohesion. He had time to feel his very atoms lose their reality and vanish into the infinite nothing of hyperspace.

-Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2016 12:57 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

Part 7

Cronal being someone who has shut down Leia’s entire body (contrast this with Vader’s failure in ANH):

He had taken her sight, cut away her hearing, erased her senses of smell and taste and touch. He had stripped away her kinesthetic sense so that she was no longer aware of her own body at all. He had shut down the activity of certain neurotransmitters so that she could no longer remember how being alive felt.

She wasn't fighting him, he wouldn't let her remember how to fight.

-Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor


And he has even dominated the spirit of an ancient Sith Lord:

The lore in the Temple gave him the knowledge he needed to capture the corrupt spirit essence of Dathka Graush, to rip it free from its resting place in Korriban's Valley of Golg, to eventually extract and consume even the most secret lore of the Sith alchemy that the ancient tyrant had carried to his grave.

-Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor


These are feats beyond Vader, and Luke still mind-raped Cronal, indicating vastly greater telepathic prowess. Additionally, DE Luke has been stated to be the Emperor's “greatest adversary”:

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And has been described as “the strongest Jedi”:

(please log in to view the image)

This is also supported by feats – Luke matching the Reborn Emperor in a Force battle, a feat that has gone undisputed so far. Luke also outright defeating him in a lightsaber duel demonstrates speed only those on Palpatine’s level can attain. And Luke’s hardly the only being vastly more powerful than Vader who Sidious has probed:

"Master Yoda..." He steepled his fingers. "Are you quite certain young Anakin is ready for such a task?"

"Yes," said Yoda flatly.

And that was a lie. Yoda was a master at masking his emotions, but not even he could hide them from the greatest Sith Lord ever known. He was worried...and backed into a corner.

-Clone Wars: Wild Space


And Yoda never even knew it. Even the very idea of Vader resisting Sidious is laughable, and with this fact in mind, let’s take a look at the following:

Under the Emperor's tutelage, Vader learns to kill with mere suggestion.

-Visual Dictionary


Vader learned this power from his Master, meaning the Emperor can also “kill with mere suggestion.” And as Vader isn’t resisting Sidious, what it basically means is that Sidious can kill Vader just by thinking about it. Vader stands no chance. An army of Vaders would present little difficulty as well; Sidious has already influenced the entire populace of Byss, which was almost 20 billion:

Years ago, Emperor Palpatine chose Byss as his private retreat, and Imperial architects and engineers were commissioned to build him an opulent palace. Several million humans were allowed to emigrate to the world, where the Emperor and his adepts used the dark side to feed off their life energies. The planet's population eventually reached almost 20 billion, and all outgoing communications were censored by security agents.

-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia


His most incredible achievement, however, is using Sith Battle Meditation on galaxy-wide scale:

For the first time, the Death Star rocked. The collision with the exploding destroyer was only the beginning, leading to various systems breakdowns, which led to reactor meltdowns, which led to personnel panic, abandonment of posts, further malfunctions, and general chaos. Smoke was everywhere, substantial rumblings came from all directions at once, people were running and shouting. Electrical fires, steam explosions, cabin depressurizations, disruption of chain-of-command. Added to this, the continued bombardments by Rebel Cruisers—smelling fear in the enemy—merely heightened the sense of hysteria that was already pervasive. For the Emperor was dead. The central, powerful evil that had been the cohesive force to the Empire was gone; and when the dark side was this diffused, this nondirected—this was simply where it led.

Confusion.

Desperation.

Damp fear.

-Return of the Jedi novelization


Palpatine knew precisely why the Empire couldn’t last without his dread power: he had designed it that way. No one ever suspected how much he relied on the Dark Side of the Force. He shaped those of his government by using the Force against them. He used it to control his fleets and to drive his soldiers on to victory. He used it to destroy his enemies from a distance and learn of conspiracies against him. Without it, there was no way the Empire could endure, as he had designed it. The Dark Side flowed through him like some primordial ichor and was the key to all his power.

-Dark Empire Sourcebook


In fact, the entire Empire became so dependent on this, once it was gone, it caused mass hysteria and everyone was completely helpless and clueless, as can be seen from the above quotes. As for influencing legions of Force sensitives:

For a decade, there was no physical signs of the remaining Dark Lord, but evidence of his power began to appear.

The Jedi ability to use the Force inexplicably began to diminish.

-Databank: Jedi Order
(Link: http://web.archive.org/web/20080523.../thejediorder/? )

Some may interpret this as Sidious being a galaxy-wide dark side nexus, clouding the Force. However, Yoda has the ability to shift his alignment to the dark side when meditating. He attempts to peer into the future by briefly becoming a darksider in AotC:

YODA: Masking the future, is this disturbance in the Force.

MACE WINDU: The propecy is coming true, the Dark Side is growing.

YODA: And only those who have turned to the Dark Side can sense the possibilities of the future. Only going through the Dark Side can we see.

...

OBI-WAN: Has Master Yoda gained any insight into whether or not this war will come about?

MACE WINDU: Probing the Dark Side is a dangerous process. He could be in seclusion for days... May the force be with you.

...

INT. JEDI TEMPLE, YODA'S QUARTERS - LATE AFTERNOON: YODA sits with his eyes closed, meditating. Silence.

-Attack of the Clones script


But despite this, he was only met with silence. This is proof Sidious can cloud the minds of thousands of Force users, be they lightsiders or darksider, on a galaxy-wide scale. And although true he couldn’t kill them telepathically, it is also equally true he was pre-prime when he accomplished this feat. After RotS, when he starts dominating Byss, the planet is only inhabited by several million people. Only later on did the population count reach 20 billion:

Years ago, Emperor Palpatine chose Byss as his private retreat, and Imperial architects and engineers were commissioned to build him an opulent palace. Several million humans were allowed to emigrate to the world, where the Emperor and his adepts used the dark side to feed off their life energies. The planet's population eventually reached almost 20 billion, and all outgoing communications were censored by security agents.

-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia


So Sidious’ Byss feat in DE is thousands of times greater than it was shortly after RotS. While these numbers aren’t exact, it does speak to a humongous increase in both telepathic and raw Force power. It seems leeching off of them for that long really did pay off in the end. During his famous Lusankya feat, Palpatine mind-wiped all the beings who saw the ships burial. This was estimated to be in the millions by Wedge Antilles. However, in order to know which beings had seen the ship’s burial and which had not, he’d have had to scan much, much more beings than he mind-wiped. Since information travels fast even in our real life – and presumably much faster in a futuristic technological wonderland and a planetary city – the safest solution would have been to scan the entire planet of Coruscant – over one trillion beings in total.

Sidious would be able to kill any Vader he chooses to on the battlefield, not just those closest to him, and possibly dozens or even hundreds with just a simple thought, if we go by his feat during the PT and the Byss scaling. Telepathy is another effective killing tool that the Vaders are helpless against.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2016 12:58 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

Part 8

Force Storm

First, I’d like to address the comments made by Tom Veitch regarding the nature of Force Storms:

”Note on "Force Storms": The Emperor can't create Force Storms at will. They are in fact a phenomenon that occurs rarely, when the minds of two great Force users meet and struggle with each other at a distance.” Link: http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2...er-tom.html?m=1

Veitch’s words are not canon. He made them in an interview that has not been canonized as part of the Legends continuity. It’s his interpretation of his own work, but it’s not canon. This is the case with all authors. Force those arguing from authorial intent, Veitch’s words contradict even his own comic, several sourcebooks, and the statements of characters. In the beginning of DE, when a Force Storm appears over Coruscant, Luke only connects minds with Palpatine after the Storm has already appeared. And at the end of DE, Palpatine conjures a Force Storm after the mental “struggle” between him, Luke, and Leia has ended.

Here is a sourcebook quote about Palpatine’s ability to create Force Storms by himself:

Vast energy storms that connect wildly disparate spots across the galaxy, hyperspace wormholes are unpredictable and devastating. It was to the Rebel Alliance's detriment that Emperor Palpatine was able to not only control these storms, but to create them.

-Handbook 3: Dark Empire


Statements from Palpatine and Mon Mothma that also contradict Veitch’s words:

”Using this knowledge, I can unleash the dark side energies that are all around us, even to shatter the fabric of space itself. In this way, I have created storms.

Through a simple act of Will, I can generate Force Storms, energy storms that are vastly destructive and virtually unstoppable.”

-Darth Sidious, Book of Anger


”The energy storm that took Commander Skywalker, this is not an isolated event. Similar Storms have been detected in several systems.”

-Mon Mothma, Dark Empire audio drama


I think that should put an end to that. Now, to address the Storms themselves and their destructive capabilities – it is stated that the Force Storm may be the most destructive Force Power known:

This is perhaps the single most destructive Force power known. This power allows the Jedi to twist the space-time continuum to create vast storms of force. The power also allows limited control of these storms. Capable of creating annihilating vortices, the storms can swallow whole fleets of spaceships or tear the surfaces off worlds.

-Dark Empire Sourcebook


Indeed, as can be read from the quote, Palpatine’s application of Force Storms surpasses even Darth Nihilus’ devastation of Katarr, which he accomplished with the help of orbital bombardment, as well as Vitiate’s devastation of Ziost, which destroyed only organic matter. Sidious’ Force Storms can not only heavily damage the surface of a planet, they can literally tear them off. While some may argue they is not as destructive as Vitiate or Nihilus because they never consumed anything on a planetary scale, they would be wrong. During the battle of Da Soocha, Emperor Palpatine unleashed a Storm far larger than the one on Coruscant:

He summoned up a huge Force storm, far more powerful than the one that had swept Coruscant.

-The Essential Chronology


Said Storm was noted to have taken over the entire moon:

“Princess Leia. There’s an energy storm. It’s suddenly taken over the planet! We have twelve ships lost already. All our hands are being lost. We’re being wiped out!

-Mon Mothma, Dark Empire audio drama


And no, this is not contradicted by the comic. We do not see what the Force Storm was doing after it had consumed the fleet, while Luke and Leia were severing Sidious’ connection. We are only given perspective to the events inside the Eclipse, not the battle outside it. In fact, the notion that Force Storms are planetary is shared by none other than Luke Skywalker, and Darth Sidious himself:

"The Reborn Emperor used this at Da Soocha. It has the power to kill worlds."

-Luke Skywalker, The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force


“In time, the channeled anger of the dark side will prove just as destructive as the Death Star.”

-Darth Sidious, Book of Anger

Their words are reliable. Luke witnessed what the Emperor could do with his Force Storms, and I’m pretty sure the latter knows what his technique is capable of. Force Storms are planetary. The Comics Companion takes it even further, though:

Unleashing the full power of his hatred, he conjures a Force Storm that threatens to consume all of space, including the New Republic fleet.

-The Comics Companion


“All of space,” taken literally, would mean the entire universe. Whether this is hyperbole or not is a debate for another time, but several things can me extrapolated from this:

1. That the size of his Force Storms increases over time, as indicated by the fact that Palpatine’s Force Storm went from fleet-busting to planet-busting in a matter of seconds, and that the quote implies it would eventually consume the universe.

2. That Palpatine’s Force Storms can consume space itself. Whether they can consume all of it is debatable, but the fact that they can consume it is not. Keep in mind space is literally a void, nothingness. Indeed, Palpatine’s Force Storms consume everything:

"The churning energy mass of a Force Storm can consume everything it touches, for at its eye is pure hate.”

-Darth Sidious, Book of the Sith


This would logically also include space – nothingness – which means Force Storms are literally made up of dark side energy so pure it’s unprecedented in the mythos – nothingness beyond nothingness. Quite fitting, since their creator has been described as “darkness beyond darkness”, isn’t it?

Now, I know I am going to get comments saying that Palpatine summoning a Force Storm in the middle of a battlefield would be suicide for him. This is not the case, though, as Palpatine knows how to resist it. He has proven this when he shielded Luke Skywalker and R2-D2 during their journey to Byss. This is indicated by the fact that Sidious and Luke connected minds right before the Storm swept him away:

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It was also noted Luke was going “toward certain destruction”, implying he couldn’t resist the Storm:

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And how would Luke even know a defence to a technique he just learned existed mere moments ago, that beyond anything he had ever seen?

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If Sidious can shield others, he can obviously shield himself. And why wouldn’t he? He has taught the Force Storm technique to all of his Dark Side Adepts (and presumably to Vader, too, since he’s an actual Sith Lord and if higher rank than the Adepts):

Force Storm: A tornado of energy created by great disturbances in the Force. Dark Side Adepts demonstrated limited control over the creation of these storms.

-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Why would he teach his minions an ability that he knew no defence against? That makes no sense. And the only reason he was killed by his own Storm in DE was because he had been cut off from the Force. And no, simply because Darth Vader may know how to create a Force Storm, doesn’t mean he can resist one. After all, he was downed by Starkiller’s Force Lightning – an ability infinitely weaker than a Force Storm.

How can the Vaders hope to strike down the Emperor, when he knows how to protect himself from something like this? And more importantly, how can they hope to protect themselves from something like this? They can’t. As the Emperor himself has said of his ability:

”Thousands of enemies can be annihilated in a single act of malice.”

-Darth Sidious, Book of Anger


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2016 12:58 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

The Conclusion

The Vaders cannot hope to win, no matter how many there are. Million, billion, googolplex – it makes no difference. Sidious can spam his powers to no end, can one-shot thousands using multiple different powers at once faster than the Vaders can percieve, and is literally unkillable.

You may not agree with me, but I at least hope you now understand my viewpoint better. Whatever the case, always remember:

Respect the Emperor and his power, for he is Sheev Palpatine, the eldest son of House Palpatine of Naboo, Ambassador and Senator of Naboo, Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Republic, Galactic Emperor of the first Galactic Empire and the Dark Empire, Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Sidious, the Sith’ari, the most powerful of all Sith Lords, the Shadow, the dark side incarnate.

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Old Post Oct 30th, 2016 12:59 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Fix the image sizes, please.


Goddammit, you ruined my posting spree.

But sorry, I can't edit the pictures.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2016 01:00 AM
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