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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Dooku and Palpatine/Yoda - is there parity in Force strength?


Dooku and Palpatine/Yoda - is there parity in Force strength?
Started by: Azronger

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Azronger
Vanguard of the Sheevites

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

Dooku and Palpatine/Yoda - is there parity in Force strength?

While Yoda noted Sidious to be the most powerful being he ever faced...

The Sith Lord only redoubled his attack. Hurling Force lightning, the Emperor backed away, to the very edge of the platform. Following him was like walking against hurricane winds. Never had Yoda faced one so strong in the dark side.

-RotS junior novel


...he also noted that Dooku's Force lightning was "far from easy" to deflect:

Dooku gave a little growl and thrust forth his hand, loosing a line of blue lightning at the diminutive Master.

Yoda caught it in his own hand and turned it aside, but far from easily.

-AotC novelization


While Dooku's would still be a notch or two below Sidious', the implication is that their Force lightning is comparable in strength.

Interestingly enough, Dooku also deflects his own Force lightning with greater visible ease than Yoda did:

(please log in to view the image)

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As for TK, there are several quotes stating Dooku and Yoda were evenly matched:

The two Force warriors attempted to defeat each other with displays of telekinesis and other Force abilities, but they were too evenly matched.

-Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force

The two engaged in a titanic struggle of Force powers, neither besting the other.

-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia


I have seen some very casual dismissals of these quotes, but I've never heard some good arguments as to why. The only thing that's frequently brought up is Sidious choking Dooku from across the galaxy, but there're several problems with this:

1. We don't know if Dooku was caught off-guard and broken free if he tried, or if he was legitimately dominated and helpless.

2. Sidious may actually be telekinetically more powerful than Yoda, yet some just automatically assume them to be equals.

Whatever the case, the burden is on the Dooku detractors to prove these quotes are false. If Yoda could've stopped Dooku with TK, he would have, as he noted it to be a primary objective:

Yoda drew his lightsaber and answered the salute. In contests, he had no interest, but in stopping Count Dooku, he had a great deal of interest indeed. And Dooku had left him no other choice.

-AotC junior novel


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Thoughts?


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2016 04:13 PM
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Nephthys
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erm


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MythLord
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Registered: Feb 2015
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Well, the lightning thing might simply be cuz of Yoda's Tutaminis skills being rusty. The novel later notes that Dooku's lightning attempts are "futile" and that his second blast of lightning became "more settled in Yoda's defense". So... yeah.

As for the TK thing, it's obviously Yoda holding back(even in the movie he's just playing defensive). You can argue Dooku managed to deflect a single object thrown at him by Yoda, but then Luke deflected objects thrown at him by Vader in ESB and SotME, so I fail to see why that implies parity.

Yoda could've stopped him with TK, but PIS and the need to save Anakin and Obi-Wan outweighed that.

Yoda and Sidious are considerably ahead of Dooku, period.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2016 04:18 PM
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SunRazer
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Dooku looks like he had more difficulty repelling the Lightning than Yoda did, actually.

Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 09:03 AM
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Beniboybling
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No lol.


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 09:33 AM
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SunRazer
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The website (definitely) and some new fact file (apparently) have retconned Dooku's Lightning being a challenge for Yoda.

Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 10:19 AM
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Beniboybling
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Source for the website?


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 10:37 AM
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cs_zoltan
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Are you not a tech savvy, Beni?


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 10:41 AM
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cs_zoltan
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Anyhow:

Dooku stopped when he heard familiar footsteps: Yoda had arrived. The Sith claimed to be more powerful than any Jedi, but Yoda easily absorbed his Force lightning attack.
http://www.starwars.com/databank/count-dooku


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 10:42 AM
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Beniboybling
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Lol, I was looking in the galleries. But good to know Dooku's been put in his place. smile

So what does that leave us with, a TK battle that never happened?


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 10:53 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol, I was looking in the galleries. But good to know Dooku's been put in his place. smile

So what does that leave us with, a TK battle that never happened?



Well Dooku still performed admirably in Sabers (given who his opponent was). He'll always have that much.

Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 12:39 PM
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Beniboybling
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inb4 Yoda was holding back. smile


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 01:07 PM
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MythLord
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He wasn't; Dooku's just that good. smile


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Azronger
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Alright, lightning's been debunked. But what about Tutaminis and Telekinesis? Dooku still deflected is own lightning with more visible ease than Yoda did, and if the quotes say they were too evenly matched in TK, I doubt Yoda could've done much with power.


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 01:31 PM
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Ursumeles
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by MythLord
He wasn't; Dooku's just that good. smile

Interesting that Sidious, Yoda's equal, killed Kolar and Tiin before Mace could react smile


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 01:37 PM
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cs_zoltan
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
Alright, lightning's been debunked. But what about Tutaminis and Telekinesis? Dooku still deflected is own lightning with more visible ease than Yoda did, and if the quotes say they were too evenly matched in TK, I doubt Yoda could've done much with power.


Dooku only deflected it, while Yoda caught it and sent it back, and absorbed it. Not quite the same.


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 01:48 PM
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MythLord
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
Alright, lightning's been debunked. But what about Tutaminis and Telekinesis? Dooku still deflected is own lightning with more visible ease than Yoda did, and if the quotes say they were too evenly matched in TK, I doubt Yoda could've done much with power.


Yoda absorbs the lightning, Dooku deflects it. One of these things is harder than the other.

The quotes saying they were "evenly matched" clearly is referring to their respective fight in AotC, where Yoda's just playing defensive. But then again, whenever two people fight and one just plays defense it'll end in a stalemate, unless the attack tires out or the defender doesn't have sufficient defense.

In this case, Dooku didn't need to waste a lot of his reserves, and Yoda had a solid defense.


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 01:56 PM
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Darth Thor
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Nothing in Canon though saying Yoda and Dooku were evenly matched, or that they stalemated IIRC.

Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 02:15 PM
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Beniboybling
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
Alright, lightning's been debunked. But what about Tutaminis and Telekinesis? Dooku still deflected is own lightning with more visible ease than Yoda did, and if the quotes say they were too evenly matched in TK, I doubt Yoda could've done much with power.
Except that statement is factually incorrect because Yoda never attacked, and Dooku never used tutanimis.


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-- Darth Plagueis Respect Thread --

Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 02:30 PM
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ILS
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I have never understood why it's a difficult concept to grasp.

Yoda and Sidious are peers. Sidious makes Dooku look like an ant. You can reconcile Yoda not utterly demolishing Dooku because of his Jedi morals/emotional investment in his former padawan. Sidious would have no such qualms about slaughtering Dooku if needed.

Ergo, if Yoda really wanted to crumple Dooku up into a ball, he could, pretty easily.


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2016 02:30 PM
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