KMC Forums

 
  REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Already a member? Log-in!
 
 
Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode IV, V & VI » Who had more stroke - Vader or Tarkin?


Who had more stroke - Vader or Tarkin?
Started by: juggernaut74

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (6): « First ... « 3 4 [5] 6 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
ares834
Knight of Ren

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


ares834 is online now!

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
What authority does he have?

Sure we do: because he doesn't actually have any official power to do anything beyond what he is charged to do with the Emperor.

...why would Tarkin be "superior" on the Death Star?


His authority is that he is the Palpatine's right hand man and enforcer. We see him command and take the initiative several times to serve the Emperor throughout ANH and Rebels. He is not going to consult with Sheev on every action he is going to take. To bring it back to R1, if Vader thought Krennic was more fit to defend the DS than Tarkin presumably he could give Krennic the command. Now he can't just do this because he likes Krennic better rather it must best serve the Emperor's own interests.

Ultimately, nothing in the film nor the novelization suggests Vader has consulted with Sheev prior to his conversation with Krennic. It appears that these are Vader's commands not Palpatine's direct commands. Whereas in RotJ he makes it clear that he is expresssing the Emperor's commands.

Tarkin would be his "superior" as he commands the DS. It's akin to a General deferring to the captain of a naval vessel.

Last edited by ares834 on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 09:24 PM

Old Post Dec 22nd, 2016 09:18 PM
Click here to Send ares834 a Private Message Find more posts by ares834 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
quanchi112
Unavoidable

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

Grabs popcorn.


__________________

Old Post Dec 22nd, 2016 09:25 PM
Click here to Send quanchi112 a Private Message Find more posts by quanchi112 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
His authority is that he is the Palpatine's right hand man and enforcer. We see him command and take the initiative several times to serve the Emperor throughout ANH and Rebels. He is not going to consult with Sheev on every action he is going to take. To bring it back to R1, if Vader thought Krennic was more fit to defend the DS than Tarkin presumably he could give Krennic the command. Now he can't just do this because he likes Krennic better rather it must best serve the Emperor's own interests.

Ultimately, nothing in the film nor the novelization suggests Vader has consulted with Sheev prior to his conversation with Krennic. It appears that these are Vader's commands not Palpatine's direct commands. Whereas in RotJ he makes it clear that he is expresssing the Emperor's commands.

Tarkin would be his "superior" as he commands the DS. It's akin to a General deferring to the captain of a naval vessel.


Nah, the novel has Krennic saying: "Does that mean I'm still in command? You'll speak to the Emperor - " right before Vader cuts him off with a choke.

Which underlines the point: unless what Vader says comes straight from Palpatine himself, Tarkin is supreme.

And your comparison about generals/captains is flawed. Vader exists outside the chain of command and so would have no hierarchical reason to defer to Tarkin unless Tarkin himself simply wields more authority than Vader.

Again, this is why Tarkin gives orders throughout ANH without hesitation or fear and Vader takes them without hesitation or reprisal. Vader is not the sort of man to bark orders at... unless he's expected to obey them.

Now I can buy that they're essentially equals and Vader takes Tarkin's shit out of a profound mutual respect for the man, but the implication that Tarkin > Vader is far more bountiful than the reverse. Tarkin is not subordinate to Vader, period.

Old Post Dec 24th, 2016 11:27 AM
Click here to Send The_Tempest a Private Message Find more posts by The_Tempest Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
ares834
Knight of Ren

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


ares834 is online now!

He says the same thing in the movie as well. What Krennic wants Vader to speak to the Emperor about is not clarified, however considering he was previously asking Vader to get him an audience with the Emperor it seems that is what he was going to ask about once more. It certainly does not seem to be about the Emperor putting him back in charge as his first question assumes that is already the case.

The comparison is certainly not perfect but the jist of it works specifically because it is about authority and not rank. On board his own vessel the commander wields more authority (but still does not outrank) than those who generally wield more.

Not at all. I'll repeat because you have yet to provide evidence to the contrary, Krennic believes Vader can put him in command of the DS and we have no reason to believe this comes from the Emperor himself (other than your own notions on how the Imperial hierarchy works.) Regardless, it's clear we will not come to an understand on this topic so it will be my last post on it.

Old Post Dec 24th, 2016 07:05 PM
Click here to Send ares834 a Private Message Find more posts by ares834 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

That's cool and all, but in addition to Vader being the bottom to Tarkin throughout the entirety of ANH, you even have officials like Dave Filoni flat out saying Tarkin outranks Vader: http://www.starwars.com/news/interv...s-rebels-part-3

I have explicit evidence from the films and LFL authorities. Respectfully, you have (by your own admission) clumsy analogies that don't really apply and the fact that Vader is your favorite character.

But facts are facts and Vader does what Tarkin tells him to do.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 01:24 AM
Click here to Send The_Tempest a Private Message Find more posts by The_Tempest Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
ares834
Knight of Ren

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


ares834 is online now!

Wells as you pointed, Vader has no rank and therefore can't be outranked. But the evidence by Filoni is certainly the best evidence yet.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:04 AM
Click here to Send ares834 a Private Message Find more posts by ares834 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Death Star


 

I still think Vader could have gotten away with killing Takin had he wanted to. He was dropping high ranking officials left and right it seemed.


__________________

The price of fame is high and the Thing cant pay the way.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:09 AM
Click here to Send juggernaut74 a Private Message Find more posts by juggernaut74 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


Zenwolf is online now!

Left and right?...He killed all of....2 people. Ozzel who failed him multiple times, Hoth being the last straw and Captain Needa.

Admiral Ozzel was the only high ranking officer he killed and it was completely justified.


__________________
"It didn't matter what they'd been before. All that mattered was that they were willing to fight—and maybe die—for the Alliance."―Col Serra.

Last edited by Zenwolf on Dec 25th, 2016 at 02:13 AM

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:11 AM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Death Star


 

He killed more in his solo book didn't he?


__________________

The price of fame is high and the Thing cant pay the way.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:13 AM
Click here to Send juggernaut74 a Private Message Find more posts by juggernaut74 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


Zenwolf is online now!

I was just speaking of the movies, but yeah.

Although this concept of Vader killing officers for the smallest of things, is the dumbest thing ever if they are looking to the movies for a source...because he didn't just kill them left and right.


__________________
"It didn't matter what they'd been before. All that mattered was that they were willing to fight—and maybe die—for the Alliance."―Col Serra.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:14 AM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Death Star


 

He's killed Admirals and Captains whenever he wanted and went unchecked.

BTW who was the Admiral he killed in the Darth Vader book? His name escapes me.


__________________

The price of fame is high and the Thing cant pay the way.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:23 AM
Click here to Send juggernaut74 a Private Message Find more posts by juggernaut74 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


Zenwolf is online now!

Yeah, but by just the movies? He didn't.

I dunno, can't remember.


__________________
"It didn't matter what they'd been before. All that mattered was that they were willing to fight—and maybe die—for the Alliance."―Col Serra.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:30 AM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
But the evidence by Filoni is certainly the best evidence yet.



Yeah that's the first time I've heard that Tarkin actually outranks Vader, which R1 certainly didn't show (and neither did Rebels Iirc).

But the Tarkin novel has Palpatine telling Vader for him and Tarkin to decide amongst themselves whose in charge for a particular mission, suggesting parity among the two of them.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:31 AM
Click here to Send Darth Thor a Private Message Find more posts by Darth Thor Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Death Star


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yeah, but by just the movies? He didn't.

I dunno, can't remember.
Well I referring canon sources not just films.


__________________

The price of fame is high and the Thing cant pay the way.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:36 AM
Click here to Send juggernaut74 a Private Message Find more posts by juggernaut74 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


Zenwolf is online now!

Fair enough.


__________________
"It didn't matter what they'd been before. All that mattered was that they were willing to fight—and maybe die—for the Alliance."―Col Serra.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:40 AM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
ares834
Knight of Ren

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


ares834 is online now!

He killed General Tagge in the comics. Though Tagge is no Tarkin.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:50 AM
Click here to Send ares834 a Private Message Find more posts by ares834 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah that's the first time I've heard that Tarkin actually outranks Vader, which R1 certainly didn't show (and neither did Rebels Iirc).

But the Tarkin novel has Palpatine telling Vader for him and Tarkin to decide amongst themselves whose in charge for a particular mission, suggesting parity among the two of them.


That's fairly early on in the Empire's career and before Tarkin is promoted to Grand Moff.

That aside, you'll notice the overall thrust of my argument is that I can accept the two are on par. But Tarkin outranking Vader is infinitely better supported than the reverse.

Based on evidence: It's OK to assume Tarkin outranks Vader. It's also OK to assume the two have parity and Vader respects him. It's not OK to assume Vader outranks Tarkin. He doesn't.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:51 AM
Click here to Send The_Tempest a Private Message Find more posts by The_Tempest Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
ares834
Knight of Ren

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


ares834 is online now!

No one said Vader "outranks" Tarkin, only that R1 suggested he had more authority.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:53 AM
Click here to Send ares834 a Private Message Find more posts by ares834 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Death Star


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
He killed General Tagge in the comics. Though Tagge is no Tarkin.
That's right.

Although Tagge was a Grand Admiral iirc.


__________________

The price of fame is high and the Thing cant pay the way.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:53 AM
Click here to Send juggernaut74 a Private Message Find more posts by juggernaut74 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
No one said Vader "outranks" Tarkin, only that R1 suggested he had more authority.


We're playing semantics at this point: Tarkin bosses Vader around. Vader takes it. Vader does not boss Tarkin around.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2016 02:54 AM
Click here to Send The_Tempest a Private Message Find more posts by The_Tempest Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 05:13 AM.
Pages (6): « First ... « 3 4 [5] 6 »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< Contact Us - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Forum powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.