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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Mace and the Invisible Hand


Mace and the Invisible Hand
Started by: DarthAnt66

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Haschwalth
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2017
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
That Mace needed vapaad to stalemate doesn't mean he can't compete with sids by virtue of his own abilities. And this is assuming Mace can't replicate the Vapaad boost despite inner darkness not being a temporary source of power.


Power no, Skill yes.

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 10:54 AM
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Haschwalth
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2017
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also

quote:
Only a desperate Force-push of his own altered his path enough that he slammed into a stanchion instead of plunging half a kilometer from the ledge outside. He bounced off and the Force cleared his head and once again he gave himself to Vaapad.


Mace managed to somewhat counteract, Sidious's force push, meaning he wasn't completely dominated out of vaapad.

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 11:04 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Haschwalth
Power no, Skill yes.

Lucas's statement wasn't exclusive to lightsaber combat.

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 11:15 AM
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Haschwalth
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Lucas's statement wasn't exclusive to lightsaber combat.

Doesn't matter, there is enough accolades, to back Mace's lightsaber duel with palps.

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 11:18 AM
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Kurk
An heroed

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: Mom's basement


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
This feat would've made Yoda look pathetic trying to stop a single senate pod

More importantly though, would this feat by Mace still have resulted in "another happy landing" by the jedi duo?


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 11:36 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Haschwalth
Doesn't matter, there is enough accolades, to back Mace's lightsaber duel with palps.

Which is fine, but Mace can compete Sidious in an all out setting per word of god.

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 11:46 AM
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Haschwalth
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Which is fine, but Mace can compete Sidious in an all out setting per word of god.


That word of God excludes Anakin. shifty

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 11:48 AM
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Haschwalth
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Mace>anakin SMD Ant.

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 11:51 AM
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godemperortrump
Death to the Sheevites

Registered: Sep 2017
Location: White House


 

quote:
"You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor,"

- Source : George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 204

- This is addressed in that blog post.
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/prof...ppened-r/77247/


I'm sorry concrete evidence that he allowed him to? written into canon, and not just speculation, with a Blog giving points.


- Unfortunately it's not that cut and dry. I said I didn't want to debate this because it's a distraction, but if we have to I will...
- That 'Blog giving points' is too well put together for it to be dismissed like that.

Sidious is not a better duelist than Yoda, he is slightly inferior in power, but the fact Remains he was disarmed, by Yoda in combat, and resorted to the force.

Duelling is as much about force abilities as it is skill with the blade. One mustn't forget their stalemate in the last episode of TCW.
Anyway:
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...sttosidious.png

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...us+sw.com+3.jpg

Mace has several quotes putting him on Yoda's level or around it as a duelist.

quote:
This is the moment that defines Mace Windu. Not his countless victories in battle, nor the numberless battles his diplomacy has avoided. Not his penetrating intellect, or his talents with the Force, or his unmatched skills with the lightsaber.

Revenge of the Sith novel


- Having 'unmatched' skills with a lightsaber is hardly something to write home about. Anoon Bondara & Kas'im have similar accolades and I think we can both agree they aren't Sidious tier... This quote doesn't put him on Yoda's level


quote:
Master Mace Windu is arguably the most skilled Lightsaber duelist alive. The Lightsaber form he developed, Vaapad, is quick and powerful, and only a handful of other Jedi have demonstrated the skill to use it, let alone master it.
Clone Wars Adventures


Yoda has better quotes :/

quote:
Only then can we understand the extraordinary combat moves of Yoda, perhaps the greatest lightsaber master the Jedi Order has ever seen.
--Taken from Insider #62: Fightsaber: Jedi Lightsaber Combat


quote:
With a stooped, small appearance, Yoda may not look like a warrior, but his skills with a lightsaber were unequaled.
--Taken from Lightsabers: A Guide to Weapons of the Force


quote:
Though it was true that he had slowed slightly in the years that Mace Windu had known him, Yoda's skill with a lightsaber was still second to none on the council.
--Taken from Darth Maul Shadow Hunter


Shall I go on?

It's perfectly believable that Mace could disarm Sidious, there is more quotes, check out some RT's.

- Mace is skilled enough sure, but his power isn't Sheev level with no amp. Darth Maul is "One of the most skilled and deadly warriors in Sith history" but he didn't have a hope in hell of defeating Sidious. Skill and power are different, Motherf*cker Dindu does not have the power to beat Sids. Hence the need for Windu to channel Sidious' own power in their ROTS fight.

It's not my feelings lmao, it's logic within the SW universe, it's Plot that Grievous is around, you have inferior Jedi doing shit like moving warships, using TK, tell me, is Grievous as heavy/durable having the abiltiy to exert enough energy to keep, several hundred thousand tons of metal off the ground. No, its retarded.

- This has been explained before... Grievous uses intimidation tactics to prevent Jedi from thinking clearly. It's just about impossible to have a level head when you have 12 lightsaber strikes per second coming at you from all angles. It's never been that Grievous was too heavy to TK away, just that you never got the opportunity. When Fisto and Obi-Wan force push the General, he gets floored instantly (This is his TCW incarnation however)

- I do get what you're saying, but he has been defeated with the force before. I guess it's just 'not the Jedi way' to abuse their power in such a manner :/

I'm referring to Lightsaber combat, not raw strength in their fight, I have Sidious above them in that regard fyi. But lightsaber combat within canon, without using the force is the only way Grevious can compete, and as I say the shit is inconsistent asf.

- Mm, awell. I don't make the rules

Better nah, around the same level, is what I believe, though others have given decent evidence, to why Dooku>Maul.

- Sure, I'm not saying Maul is a tier above Dooku or anything lmao. Maul's showing against Sidious on Sundari is at least comparable to the Count's battle against Yoda in Aotc. 'Others' have also given decent evidence to why Maul > Dooku.

CBF, digging through hundreds of pages.

- Fair enough

Last edited by godemperortrump on Sep 26th, 2017 at 12:02 PM

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 11:53 AM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Haschwalth
Mace>anakin SMD Ant.

They literally fight in the ROTS game and Anakin wins, rofl.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 01:49 PM
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godemperortrump
Death to the Sheevites

Registered: Sep 2017
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
They literally fight in the ROTS game and Anakin wins, rofl.

I mean, Anakin would beat Mace but is this really the argument you wanna present? The ****ing ROTS game lmao

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 01:57 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Oh, absolutely. A lot of the team who worked on the film moved over to the ROTS game. Gillard choreographed the fight scenes just like he did for the films. I don't see a reason not to use it. What we get for Anakin vs Mace is what would have happened if they fought in the eyes of Lucas, guided by Gillard.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 02:03 PM
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cs_zoltan
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: Hungary


 

So what do you make of Drallig actually fighting well against Anakin, and not getting stomped?


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 02:04 PM
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Haschwalth
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Oh, absolutely. A lot of the team who worked on the film moved over to the ROTS game. Gillard choreographed the fight scenes just like he did for the films. I don't see a reason not to use it. What we get for Anakin vs Mace is what would have happened if they fought in the eyes of Lucas, guided by Gillard.


Tsk Tsk, the word came from the big GL himself, his command supersedes that of puny Gillard.

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 02:16 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
So what do you make of Drallig actually fighting well against Anakin, and not getting stomped?

The ROTS novel has higher canonical authority to the ROTS game.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 02:28 PM
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cs_zoltan
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: Hungary


 

So then the Mace/Anakin fight didn't happen.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 02:37 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

No shit it didn't happen. erm


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 03:16 PM
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cs_zoltan
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: Hungary


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I don't see a reason not to use it.


This is the reason:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No shit it didn't happen. erm


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 03:33 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

I've addressed that terrible "reason" before, but I can't find the link on my laptop. I'll wait until I get on desktop.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 03:55 PM
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Prof. T.C McAbe
Kryptonian Scientist

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: BatCave


 

Dooku > Mace, skill and powers.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 04:36 PM
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