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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Mace and the Invisible Hand


Mace and the Invisible Hand
Started by: DarthAnt66

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ChocolateMuesli
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2017
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Why is headcanon being discussed here?

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 05:47 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

@cs_zoltan:

LucasArts Development Team:

LucasArts and George Lucas wanted to make sure the Episode III game experience was just as complete and authentic as it possibly could be, so we've been working with George from the beginning.

We wanted to bring players the most authentic, the most exciting lightsaber duels ever seen in a video game, period. So we knew from the beginning we'd have to clal the master, so we called Nick.

Working closely with famed Star Wars stunt coordinator Nick Gillard, the development team is creating the most authentic lightsaber combat ever with choreography taken directly from the films as well as many new stunts created exclusively for the game under the auspices of Gillard. Expanding on the upcoming movie, the game will take place in never-before-seen locations that will give fans a sneak peek into the highly anticipated Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith film, releasing worldwide on May 19, 2005.


Nick Gillard:

I’m over here at Lucasfilm working on the game for Episode III. Hopefully working out the moves and the fights to get it as real as we can to the movie.

This week we’ve been working on breaking down the Jedi moves. Trying to work with the system—a written system that only a few of us know. Only the actors and the stunt guys do it, so I’ve been trying to teach the animators of the game and show the specific moves—show them how wrists move, how feet move—so we can get it as close as possible to the movie.


On a movie, obviously I have a script. I know the story of the movie. I know how the characters are feeling, why they’re fighting, where they’ve got to go. I think it’s going to be pretty much the same on this game. The sets are all the same. The characters are the same.

I’m going to take the same approach—I’m just going to get it much more detailed because it’s much tighter than it is on the movie, and there’s so much more time with the game.

So we’re working particularly on the footwork—how exactly they move. How their wrists move when they turn, that they turn the right way, that the blocks and grapples are correct.


--- --- ---

All things considered, the Mace vs Anakin fight seems to be, as they put it, as authentic as possible, which was ensured by both Lucas and Gillard.

As I said, I don't see a reason not to use it. A difference between the film and the game doesn't make the game's version non-canon.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 07:07 PM
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Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

Kinda wish they would have kept in Anakin actually fighting Cin and Serra, feel like Nick deserved a little more than a 2 second holo appearance given all the work he put in designing the fights of all the PT and in the game.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 07:27 PM
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cs_zoltan
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: Hungary


 

@Ant none of them explains why you suck up the Mace fight while ignoring the Cin fight. Seems like cherrypicking to me.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 07:30 PM
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NewGuy01
perpetual

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: USA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Kinda wish they would have kept in Anakin actually fighting Cin and Serra, feel like Nick deserved a little more than a 2 second holo appearance given all the work he put in designing the fights of all the PT and in the game.


It was just a cameo.

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 07:39 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

@cs_zoltan: Seems like you're wrong to me.

The ROTS novel, which is of higher canonical authority than the ROTS video-game, has Anakin beat Cin Drallig in a matter of strikes.

This version of the fight is likewise echoed in the ROTS Visual Guide and the Dark Nest Crisis.

Thus, it's not a matter of ignoring. It's me taking the ROTS novel above ROTS video-game in a situation of irreconcilable contradiction.

However, if you want to argue that Cin Drallig, within the context of the ROTS video-game, cannot be stomped by Anakin, then I'd agree.

But, generally, when we discuss Cin Drallig, we're looking at him being in the ballpark of tier 7s, not tier 9s like he is in the game.

Or, in other words, Nick Gillard's vision of Cin Drallig (himself), which seems to be his own creative idea (not George's), never really became mainstream.


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Last edited by DarthAnt66 on Sep 26th, 2017 at 07:45 PM

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 07:43 PM
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Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
It was just a cameo.


I know.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 08:02 PM
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cs_zoltan
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: Hungary


 

But if Gillard was so blatantly wrong about the Cin fight I see no reason to take at face value his opinion on an actual non-canon fight.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 08:07 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
But if Gillard was so blatantly wrong about the Cin fight I see no reason to take at face value his opinion on an actual non-canon fight.

Somehow everything you said here was wrong.

No, Nick Gillard wasn't "wrong." There's no indication that Lucas established a level for Cin Drallig in the first place. It seems more than likely that both Matthew Stover and Nick Gillard had the liberty of creating Cin Drallig with their own creative vision, but their versions differed. Lucas and Lucasfilm was heavily involved in both projects and was, apparently, indifferent to the contradiction. Nonetheless, the ROTS novel is of higher canonical authority and, thus, other works since have used that version of Cin Drallig. That doesn't mean Nick Gillard was wrong - it means his vision never came to fruition. The difference between that situation and Nick Gillard's run-down on Anakin Skywalker and Mace Windu is unprecedented. I've already provided you a dozen quotes that state a central goal of the game was to create a game that is just as authentic as the films when it comes to lightsaber fighting. Nick Gillard co-created the fighting styles of Anakin and Mace with George Lucas. His creative input here is going to be greatly expanded than a minor character like Cin Drallig, where his take on the character isn't absolute since no definitive take, seemingly, had yet to be established.

Also, the fight isn't non-canon. The game is consistently stated to expand upon the film and had extensive oversight by LucasFilm. Refer to the following two quotes also:

(please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)


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Last edited by DarthAnt66 on Sep 26th, 2017 at 08:29 PM

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 08:24 PM
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cs_zoltan
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: Hungary


 

Closely following the plot of the movie, and expanding upon it doesn't mean in any shape or form that the game is canon erm

You yourself said that the novel overwrites the Cin fight, what do you think the movie does then with the Mace fight? Deletes it in it's entirety.

You can bring up whatever quotes you want, the fact is that a non-canon fight from a source that's already shaky at best doesn't mean f-uck all. I'm not even sure why you care, the game isn't needed in the slightest to prove Anakin > Mace.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 08:41 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Beyond the beyond.


 

Anakin > the Mace that beat Sidious, yeah.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 09:10 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

I don't know how I can waste my time for multiple hours and yet you still seem to not have a clue what's going on.

The fact the fight never happened doesn't mean it shouldn't be used, given this hypothetical matchup has significant canonical authority and was worked on by LucasFilm and Nick Gillard.

It's essentially asking George Lucas who he thinks would win between Mace and Anakin and him saying Anakin would win - Gillard and LucasFilm working on the behalf of Lucas.

If you're not accepting that, then that's your own fault, not mine, for ignoring the vision of Lucas. thumb up


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 09:11 PM
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Darth Thor
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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

I don't see what's so controversial about Anakin beating Mace right after Mace's fight with Palpatine.

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 09:12 PM
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cs_zoltan
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: Hungary


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I don't know how I can waste my time for multiple hours and yet you still seem to not have a clue what's going on.


I understand it perfectly. Too bad it's retarded.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 09:28 PM
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NewGuy01
perpetual

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: USA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The difference between that situation and Nick Gillard's run-down on Anakin Skywalker and Mace Windu is unprecedented.


What's with your bizarre use of vocabulary lately? sick

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 09:59 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Couldn't think of a good word besides unprecedented, tbh.

I cringed when writing it too, don't worry.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 10:01 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Omnipotent

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Beyond the beyond.


 

What ant is saying is that:

A: While the Windu vs. Anakin fight didn't actually happen, its intent and accuracy to what would actually happen are solidly-backed and uncontradicted by any other higher evidence we have.

B: The intent and accuracy of the Anakin vs. Drallig fight in the game is contradicted by the other, higher sources of canon.


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"I was lying! See? There's an Omniverse in the box. And that Omniverse died. But alot of the lives in it carried onto the new one. New broom--same handle."

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 10:54 PM
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deathslash
Warlord and Sith Lord

Registered: Jul 2013
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
What ant is saying is that:

A: While the Windu vs. Anakin fight didn't actually happen, its intent and accuracy to what would actually happen are solidly-backed and uncontradicted by any other higher evidence we have.

B: The intent and accuracy of the Anakin vs. Drallig fight in the game is contradicted by the other, higher sources of canon.
1. So Anakin is only above mace after he's fought the most powerful sith Lord ever? I'm ok with this.

2. This is correct.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 11:22 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

The scene's intent isn't a weakened Mace vs Anakin, rofl. In fact, the player is unaware they even fought.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 11:25 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Omnipotent

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Beyond the beyond.


 

thumb up

There's not even the slightest implication that Mace was weakened or hindered in any way, as I recall.


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"I was lying! See? There's an Omniverse in the box. And that Omniverse died. But alot of the lives in it carried onto the new one. New broom--same handle."

Old Post Sep 26th, 2017 11:30 PM
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