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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Can Luminara Unduli ragdoll AotC Anakin?


Can Luminara Unduli ragdoll AotC Anakin?
Started by: Ursumeles

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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Yea, a scene not being shown in the movie doesn't contradict a source that depicts said scene.

You can't use the deleted scene to try and force a contradiction because, well, it's a deleted scene.



Point is it didn't happen in the movie, so doesn't count.


Edit- Also at least post the passage so we can see if it really is a "domination" as you call it.

Unlikely though given this is the same Anakin who was giving Dooku a run for his money, something Ventress has never been capable of, even in her prime.

Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 11:07 AM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Point is it didn't happen in the movie, so doesn't count.

This isn't canon only Thor.

Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 11:07 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
This isn't canon only Thor.


I'm pretty sure even in Legends Movies overright novels.

Also see my edit. Post the passage. Ventress dominating Anakin completely contradicts power levels set in the same movie.

Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 11:10 AM
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DarthAnt66
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The TCW novel was specifically stated to have lower canonical authority than all the other movie novels because Lucas was not involved.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 11:17 AM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I'm pretty sure even in Legends Movies overright novels.

Also see my edit. Post the passage. Ventress dominating Anakin completely contradicts power levels set in the same movie.

An absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence Thor.

I'll post when I get it.

As for Dooku:
quote:
"Give me the Huttlet, Skywalker," Dooku said quietly." Or I'll have to kill you."
He'd swallowed the ruse, then. "I think you were going to do that anyway."
"Very well."
The tone of the confrontation was strangely courteous, like an Irmenu noblemen's duel. Dooku threw out his hand and sent Force lightning crackling across the sand toward Anakin, lighting up the night. Anakin evaded the bolts and channeled the lightning to his lightsaber.
"You're making progress," Dooku said. He lunged forward with his lightsaber, forcing Anakin back, then somersaulted over him. "Being here is painful, isn't it? Your home. Too many ghosts to contemplate. Stayed away too long, perhaps..."
Anakin whipped his hand up almost without thinking and sent a Force whirlwind of sand sweeping from the dunes. It spun toward Dooku, enveloping him and almost knocking him to the ground. The Count crouched for a moment as it passed over him, cloak pulled tight around him, and then stood again, lightsaber outstretched.
"Was I being insensitive?" He walked forward. "We all have to face our ghosts, Anakin. I face mine. They never go away, you know. They can be a burden, like that Hutt you're carrying, or a teacher, if you learn to live with them."
Did Dooku know about Shmi Skywalker? He seemed to know everything else, or maybe it was the trick of a fortune-teller, casting generalities to get a client to react and reveal specifics. Whatever it was, Anakin couldn't walk away from it or shut it out. He felt every shred of pain, his and his mother's, and lunged for Dooku with his lightsaber. His attack was blind and ferocious, oblivious of the dead weight on his back, slashing and whirling at the Count until he drove him back to the softer sand where he'd lose his footing.
But Dooku had been a master duelist, even among Jedi, and Anakin forgot that for a pain-blinded moment. Dooku ducked under his frantic sweeps and spun around behind him, slashing through the rigid backpack almost to Anakin's spine. The sudden movement of the rocks packed tightly inside made Anakin pause to get his balance.
"Oh dear," Dooku said mildly. "I seem to have cut Rotta in half."
"You wish." Anakin held out his lightsaber to fend off Dooku while he released the straps and let the backpack fall to the sand. Rocks spilled out.
Dooku raised his eyebrows. "Good grief, not a Hutt at all . . ."
It dawned on Anakin too slowly that Dooku wouldn't have been so easily fooled. This is a game. He's playing for time. Just when Anakin thought he'd passed that elusive finishing line that said adult, experienced, seen it all, he realized he was still twenty, Jedi or not, and the wounded boy in him still rose to the surface-provoked into angry violence, scared of abandonment, and still in need of approval.
Dooku was playing decoy.
"You're too late, anyway," Anakin said. He had to choose: fight Dooku to the end, or make a run for it and try to get to Ahsoka. He had his eye on the speeder bike. "She'll be at Jabba's palace by now."
"You'll note I didn't ask where she was," Dooku said, taking a holoprojector from his cloak. "And I know you can't comm her. But I can show you some friends she's run into."
Anakin thought it was another trick, but the blue holoimage that sprang into life looked real enough. The angle suggested it was being recorded by something much taller than Ahsoka. She backed away from two MagnaGuard droids, stumbling in the sand, Rotta on her back in the makeshift harness she'd made.
Was this real? Anakin didn't trust anything he saw now.
"Jabba's son is still a casualty of war, alas, but your Padawan is being delivered to Jabba alive." Dooku carved a slow figure-eight in the air with the tip of his lightsaber. "He needs to vent his grief on something, and he won't have you to play with, will he?"
Anakin sprinted for the speeder.
TCW Novelization

Dooku was toying with Anakin.

Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 11:17 AM
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DarthAnt66
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Lmfao that fight is completely different than the film, and unlike other film novelizations, it's borderline fan-fiction.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 11:18 AM
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|King Joker|
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Yea, a scene not being shown in the movie doesn't contradict a source that depicts said scene.

You can't use the deleted scene to try and force a contradiction because, well, it's a deleted scene.
The scene was deleted presumably because it didn't fit in the movie's sequence of events, and if it doesn't fit in the movie's sequence of events, it literally did not happen. In the movie, Ventress was in a different part of the temple when Anakin and Ahsoka left the room they were in in the deleted scene, Ventress confronts Anakin and Ahsoka in that same room, which obviously doesn't make sense because she was at the entrance of the temple ten seconds prior interrogating Rex for Anakin and Ahsoka's location. It doesn't jive together. You can't use a deleted scene as evidence that something happened when it isn't congruent with the actual events of the movie, even if it is backed up by the novelization. The deleted scene literally could not have happened in the movie, so it being backed up by the book is completely irrelevant since the movie's canonicity > the novel.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 11:23 AM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Lmfao that fight is completely different than the film, and unlike other film novelizations, it's borderline fan-fiction.

Since when have you tried to use differences in dialogue and insignificant details as just cause to wholly dismiss a fight?

Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 11:23 AM
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Rockydonovang
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@Joker, I'm not using the deleted scene as evidence bro.

Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 11:25 AM
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|King Joker|
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
@Joker, I'm not using the deleted scene as evidence bro.
You're using the novel that depicts the deleted scene fight, which doesn't make the fight any more legitimate.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 11:26 AM
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godemperortrump
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I love how Joker shows up when shitty characters like Ahsoka and Luminara are being debated. It's sad

Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 11:30 AM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by |King Joker|
You're using the novel that depicts the deleted scene fight, which doesn't make the fight any more legitimate.

Yea, no, the novel's validity isn't tied to the deleted scene's validity.
The deleted scene has been deleted from the lore. The novelization, has not.

Last edited by Rockydonovang on Sep 28th, 2017 at 11:37 AM

Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 11:35 AM
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|King Joker|
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Yea, no, the novel's validity isn't tied to the deleted scene's validity.
The deleted scene has been deleted from the lore. The novelization, has not.
The movie overrides the novel in canonicity, so if it is literally impossible for the fight to have taken place in the movie, that means the fight did not happen, no matter what the book says. The novel saying the fight happened contradicts the superior source, thus rendering the novel's depiction as bullshit. Period.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 11:46 AM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by |King Joker|
[B]The movie overrides the novel in canonicity, so if it is literally impossible for the fight to have taken place in the movie, that means the fight did not happen, no matter what the book says. The novel saying the fight happened contradicts the superior source, thus rendering the novel's depiction as bullshit. Period.

Yet again, you're assuming a the logistical plausibility of a deleted scene applies to a separate novelization.

It's also a little laughable that you're trying to use differences in the logistical details present in different sources to try and invalidate source material when differences in details are true of literally every fight which has multiple depictions in source material.

I'll play along though. In season 3, despite Anakin growing at a faster rate, Ventress is a clearly least a match for him and is still able to exploit openings in his defenses or superior power(have your pick) to blast him with the force. TCW Anakin is later then, directly stalemated by Ventress in a telekinetic bout despite Anakin growing at a faster rate.

The point being, AOTC Anakin being able to match later incarnations of Ventress is nonsensical when superior versions of Anakin can only match the corresponding versions of Ventress he faces.

Hence, Luminara being able to contend well with season 2 Ventress is a perfectly fair reason to argue she could take AOTC Anakin.

If you respond, I'll try to respond later on.

Last edited by Rockydonovang on Sep 28th, 2017 at 12:02 PM

Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 12:00 PM
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Rockydonovang
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Here we are:
quote:

Anakin knew Ahsoka could take care of herself as far as the droids were concerned. He focused his energy on Ventress. The assassin assaulted him with both blades blazing, but Anakin expertly deflected them.
"Surrender now and save yourself the humiliation, " Anakin said.
Ventress flipped backward, steadying herself.
"I've learned much since we last met, " she said. "Let me show you. "
Ventress locked her two lightsabers together, forming one long staff with a glowing blade at each end. She expertly twirled it and then thrust the staff at Anakin.
Anakin's mind raced to develop a strategy against the unfamiliar weapon. He deflected blow after blow, but Ventress pushed him farther and farther back into the chamber.
A renewed energy charged through Anakin, and he heightened his attack, gaining the advantage once more. Then he delivered a surprise kick to the center of the staff, disconnecting the two lightsabers. One of the weapons flew out of her hand.
But Ventress wasn't defenseless. As Anakin swung his lightsaber, she ducked and used the Force to push him backward. He smashed against the wall, dropping his lightsaber.
Ventress held out her right hand and a lightsaber flew into it. She advanced on Anakin, pinning him against the wall.
"Prepare to join with the Force, Jedi!" she cried, igniting her weapon.
Slam! Ahsoka jumped on her back. The chamber floor behind the Padawan was littered with destroyed battle droids.
Ventress stumbled a bit. Then she turned, knocking Ahsoka to the ground.
Anakin quickly retrieved his lightsaber and rushed forward. He and Ahsoka locked lightsabers with Ventress. The air sizzled with energy as the three traded blows.
Slam! Ventress delivered a kick to Anakin's knees, and then spun around, slashing at Ahsoka with her blade. Ahsoka jumped back to dodge it, and Rotta fell out of the backpack.
"Stinky!" Ahsoka cried.
Anakin jumped in between Ahsoka and Ventress.
"I'll handle her!" he called out. "Get the Huttlet out of here!"
Ahsoka picked up the heavy little Hutt. "Easy for you to say. "
As Anakin fended off a blow from Ventress, Ahsoka raced across the chamber to the large door on the back wall. She spotted a large button on the wall and pressed it. The big door rumbled up, revealing a gigantic, clawed hand.
"Oops, " Ahsoka said. "Not good. "
She looked up in horror to see a huge beast with long, muscled arms and a striped body. Its massive head was mostly mouth, a gaping jaw filled with teeth as sharp as knives.
Ahsoka dodged to the side as the jungle rancor stormed from its prison and attacked Ventress and Anakin, swiping at them with its claws. They jumped onto the beast's back and continued their battle. The rancor paused, puzzled. Then it noticed Ahsoka and Rotta, huddled in a corner of the chamber.
"Oh boy, " Ahsoka said nervously.
Anakin slashed the rancor's neck with his lightsaber. The monster roared and turned away from
Ahsoka, looking for its attacker.
A new squad of battle droids stormed into the throne room above them. Now they joined the fight, firing down at Anakin with their blasters. He spun around, deflecting the fire with his lightsaber. The lasers bounced back up to the throne room, striking the droids.
The rancor stomped back toward Ahsoka. She stabbed its foot with her lightsaber.
"ROOOOOOWWRR!" the beast roared.
Enraged, it reared back, sending Ventress and Anakin flying off of its back. They sprawled onto the floor. Then the monster kicked Ahsoka, sending her skidding across the chamber. He lunged after her, and this time, she stabbed him in the nose.
Howling in pain, the rancor staggered backward. Ventress charged at Anakin, unaware that the beast was almost upon her. The rancor collapsed on top of Ventress, and Anakin dashed away to help Ahsoka.
TCW Junior Novelization

If you're desperate enough to dismiss this based on a minor logistical discrepancy that occurs across different sources, feel free to, it's not necessary to argue for Luminara here.

Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 12:09 PM
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DarthAnt66
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(please log in to view the image)

Yeah, I'm taking the entire novel with a grain of salt.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 12:22 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by godemperortrump
I love how Joker shows up when shitty characters like Ahsoka and Luminara are being debated. It's sad



Well that's actually a nice change instead of just debating the main characters all the time.

Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 12:26 PM
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|King Joker|
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@Kbro: To get this straight, are we assuming that all sources are of equal validity here? I.e. no canonical hierarchy?


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 12:28 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang


As for Dooku:
Dooku was toying with Anakin.



LMAO We saw him trying to kill Anakin.

Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 12:28 PM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by |King Joker|
@Kbro: To get this straight, are we assuming that all sources are of equal validity here? I.e. no canonical hierarchy?

If the movie actually featured a contradictory depiction of the fight, then I'd consider the hierarchy.

Regardless, as I said, that specific fight isn't needed to argue for Luminara here.

So feel free to dismiss it.

Old Post Sep 28th, 2017 12:33 PM
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