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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Luke's standing next to Vader


Luke's standing next to Vader
Started by: Azronger

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Azronger
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Luke's standing next to Vader

I recently perused through Fact File #120 and found something interesting.

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Luke is stated to be more powerful than peak Vader as of RotJ, and DE Luke is "immensely" more powerful than that. What are your thoughts on these quotes?


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 04:57 PM
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Darth Thor
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Thoughts are that Legends was all over the place.

Hoping to get a more consistent answer for this (Luke's power level as of ROTJ) in Canon.

Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 05:06 PM
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Zenwolf
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Because of his rage that sent him over the edge to best Vader which made him more powerful as even Sidious noted that in the movie. Luke wasn't more powerful as he was normally. The quote is more directing at the final blows, not the whole thing.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 05:20 PM
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Azronger
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Because of his rage that sent him over the edge to best Vader which made him more powerful as even Sidious noted that in the movie. Luke wasn't more powerful as he was normally. The quote is more directing at the final blows, not the whole thing.


I don't recall the Emperor ever comparing Luke and Vader's power in the movie. On the contrary, the quote is stating that the Emperor expected Luke to be more powerful even before the duel began, making no special note about rage.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 05:30 PM
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MythLord
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Luke proved more powerful while enraged.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 05:35 PM
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Azronger
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by MythLord
Luke proved more powerful while enraged.


Of course, but that doesn't abrogate the idea of calm Luke being more powerful too.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 05:40 PM
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Zenwolf
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
I don't recall the Emperor ever comparing Luke and Vader's power in the movie. On the contrary, the quote is stating that the Emperor expected Luke to be more powerful even before the duel began, making no special note about rage.


Well he didn't compare the two, I was going off his line.

"Your hate has made you powerful!"

Which seems to go along nicely with that quote there.

Also it does? Because I'm not seeing that there, it's just going off after Luke went all ham over Vader with his lightsaber and disarmed him.

He expected Luke to be more powerful sure, but this only came after he tapped into his rage, it's not something that he normally was.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 05:41 PM
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ChocolateMuesli
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iirc luke admits that he was less powerful than vader in shadows of mindor. thor is right, its inconsistent just like almost everything else in sw

Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 05:46 PM
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Zenwolf
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ChocolateMuesli
iirc luke admits that he was less powerful than vader in shadows of mindor. thor is right, its inconsistent just like almost everything else in sw


It's not really inconsistent, since Luke was more powerful due to his rage which does give boosts, it isn't how he is normally.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 05:47 PM
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ChocolateMuesli
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that he ''proved more powerful'' doesnt really suggest that it refers to his amp imo but okay

Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 06:11 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
I don't recall the Emperor ever comparing Luke and Vader's power in the movie. On the contrary, the quote is stating that the Emperor expected Luke to be more powerful even before the duel began, making no special note about rage.


The Emperor could have expected Luke to give into his rage. Not really contrary. smile


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 06:15 PM
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Azronger
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Well he didn't compare the two, I was going off his line.

"Your hate has made you powerful!"

Which seems to go along nicely with that quote there.

Also it does? Because I'm not seeing that there, it's just going off after Luke went all ham over Vader with his lightsaber and disarmed him.

He expected Luke to be more powerful sure, but this only came after he tapped into his rage, it's not something that he normally was.


The Emperor isn't saying Luke's hate made him more powerful than Vader. He's saying Luke's hate made him powerful.

If the Emperor expected Luke to be more powerful, he must have obviously known how strong Luke roughly was. In TESB he states he can feel Luke growing in power from across the galaxy, and in RotJ he says "he has grown strong" to Vader, while Luke was on Tatooine, so it's pretty apparent the Emperor has been observing Luke's power level for the past year through his Force Senses. His insight then led him to expect Luke was more powerful than Vader. Nothing about Force Rage is implied anywhere.

Just because Luke happened to be in an enraged state when he bested Vader doesn't mean he couldn't have beat him normally, or that he wasn't more powerful. Luke didn't want to fight his father until provoked, so obviously he's not going to prove anything if he doesn't want to.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 06:30 PM
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Azronger
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ChocolateMuesli
iirc luke admits that he was less powerful than vader in shadows of mindor. thor is right, its inconsistent just like almost everything else in sw


Luke admits he was less powerful than Vader in The Courtship of Princess Leia, although I'm inclined to call that into question given how the guy runs from droidekas and thinks he can't beat a few wild beasts in his Grandmaster years.

In SoM, though, Cronal muses Luke is more powerful than Vader, and Kar Vastor opinionates that Luke is better than Windu. Though their worth is debatable, of course.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 06:36 PM
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Azronger
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Emperor could have expected Luke to give into his rage. Not really contrary. smile


The quote doesn't say the Emperor expected Luke to tap into his rage, or that he expected Luke to be more powerful than Vader when tapping into his rage. It simply says the Emperor expected Luke to be more powerful than Vader.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 06:39 PM
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Ursumeles
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
Kar Vastor opinionates that Luke is better than Windu.
Quote?


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 07:01 PM
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Azronger
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Quote?


I remember seeing it in NewGuy's old Luke RT, which has for some reason disappeared.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 07:09 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
It simply says the Emperor expected Luke to be more powerful than Vader.


Regardless, this gets even muddier when you factor in how Luke felt he would have fared against Vader's force powers, how Luke fared against Gethzerion's power, and then the various quotes implying Vader > Gethzerion.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 07:11 PM
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twotter
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There's is no specific quote claiming that Vader had more power than Geth, and certainly not factoring in dathomir.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 07:14 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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IIRC there's a quote from an Insider and another one stating that Vader is second in power only to the Emperor himself.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 07:17 PM
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Azronger
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
IIRC there's a quote from an Insider and another one stating that Vader is second in power only to the Emperor himself.


The impression I get from those is that they refer to political power.

Besides, Sidious outright feared Gethzerion's power and IIRC, barricaded Dathomir so she wouldn't escape. That's more precautions than he ever took against Vader.


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Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 07:29 PM
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