Tbh imo, there's no real big gaps between any eras of the Jedi Order. They each have their own advantages and what not, but as I see it, nothing really skews one era in favor than another.
Yeah, that doesn't really fly. The fact that he hadn't envisioned the particulars of earlier eras doesn't change his obvious intention; when the Jedi fell, they fell from the peak of their power and influence, which was built up in the absence of the Sith.
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ah yes, Europe; highest rate of binge drinking and alcohol related deaths responsible for the highest mortality rates among 15-29 year olds. Natural selection I guess .
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I'm still unconvinced.
First, Lucas doesn't have to explicitly reference earlier epochs of Jedi history for his proclamation that the prequels are the prime of the Jedi to ring true.
Second, the prequels don't have to be the prime, the heyday, or the golden age of the Jedi to simply be better fighters than the Jedi of the original trilogy. But Lucas still referred to the prequels as such.
But he's talking in the context of the movies isn't he?
You know I'm a PT/OT era guy, and don't care much for the KOTOR era. But it's just how I always interpreted Lucas's statement. He was always talking about it in the context of the Prequels giving us stuff we've not seen before.
Lucas's word is actually fact. Applicable for everything. It also makes perfect sense for him to be referring to the TPM era as their most powerful( this is just for argument's sake, it actually is the most powerful era), because in terms of the Sith war, it is made clear that it clouds a Jedi's connection to the force. And the Jedi have had a millenium to grow, unencumbered by the dark side.
So any way you want to look at it, he was referring to them being most powerful during the time of TPM.
I mean, I'm reading the same quote as you - I'm just not concluding the same thing. To me, your stance doesn't make any sense within the context, and is just wishful thinking. I struggle believing one can read that quote and conclude that's what Lucas is referring to, rather than just using that quote for their own benefits.
The Jedi of the original trilogy are few in number, in exile or in training, and weakened or unskilled. The Jedi of the prequel trilogy are many in number, present in galactic affairs, and powerful. It makes perfect sense why he's calling the prequel trilogy the "golden age." That doesn't likewise apply to previous Jedi eras, since they should also be considered within that assessment.
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Last edited by Jaggarath on Oct 31st, 2017 at 01:31 PM
So any way you want to look at it, he was referring to them being most powerful during the time of TPM.
Ant is incorrect. The one quote which says anything remotely like that is the one which says that the Jedi are at their prime. Given that he refuted the CG quote by saying that it could refer to knowledge, it is just as well that this one could refer to knowledge as well. Or experience.
The quote simply says that it was the prime of the Jedi. That's it. Which is exactly what GL has said.
Trying to extend the GL quote in general to the OR by induction, also doesn't work at all, because as said, the Jedi were obliterated multiple times in the past.
GL has said very clearly that during TPM, the Jedi Order is at its prime. This quote, as is, is fact. He wasn't referring to any other era before TPM, he wasn't doing induction to extend this to any other time period in the Old Republic. And compared with GL's word, this falls flat. Not to mention, GL's quote is supplemented by a variety of other quotes as well, including the one from the Book of Sith.
Actually his quote could group together many past eras due to Ben Kenobi's line in ANH "For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic... Before the Dark Times... Before the Empire..."
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Good point. However, the context seems to be solving crises and such, so I'd imagine lightsaber skill and mastery of the Force would be involved.
It doesn't refer to the Order; it just refers to Jedi. Whether they were part of the Order or not doesn't have any significance. They continued to grow regardless.
Could be a variety of reasons, none of which I need to know, because the fact remains that they are better during the prequels.
These same criticisms could be applied to the KotOR era too. They were hindered by a dark side shroud and their numbers had dwindled to a few hundred only, IIRC. You tell me why that kind of order would be better than one with ten thousand members who're free to spar with lightsabers and meditate on the Force in peace.
But don't bother; the possible reasons are irrelevant, as I said, so long as the facts are clear. Your point is moot.
It not being conveyed doesn't mean it isn't the case. KotOR being the prime isn't conveyed it the game either, so this just smells like a double standard.
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Last edited by Azronger on Oct 31st, 2017 at 02:17 PM
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Hence why I don't put KotOR as the prime of the Jedi either
Rather than point out the issues with the KotORCG quote, which anyone can recognize, justify the positioning that the PT era is instead the golden age, which is my main issue with this entire thread. I use the KotORCG quote to counter the mindless "PT is the supreme era" nonsense. I find it amusing the only legitimate claim to it is actually TotJ / KotOR. Every PT era quote is wonderfully ambiguous and distorted in use.
It's not that I rule out the PT to other eras like TotJ or KotOR. I don't have a solid opinion on which era I even consider the "golden age." The prequel trilogy very well may be the best era, but such an opinion isn't rooted in evidence - quite the contrary, actually. My point is you (and others) are trying to write this PT supremacy as G-Canon law, which it isn't. You even passively admitted in the above post that there are indeed issues with the notion and ambiguity surrounding the Lucas quotes.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Oct 31st, 2017 at 02:24 PM