Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
My thoughts:
Let's first look at the OT. Lucas tells us that Yoda and Sidious, the two masters/teachers of the Light and Dark sides, are 'beyond' lightsabers. That's why we never see them using it, because they've gone beyond the need to use them. I feel like Johnson has emulated this with the new trilogy. The two big guys of both sides of the force are Luke and Snoke, both of whom aren't really going to use lightsabers in any context, since their abilities in the force are just that good that they don't need to use one in a competitive fight really. We can't use the Luke vs Ben fight as an example, because Luke was just stalling Kylo and clearly toying around. Snoke is too physically weak, but we can't put it beyond him to actually augment himself like Yoda. Overall, the theme of the big goodie and big badie being beyond lightsabers, with the main characters [young], so in this instance Kylo and Rey still using them is a direct mirror of the OT.
It's too early to really debate Snoke vs Luke. We don't have enough feats. For now, Snoke is clearly above Ben and Rey, just as Luke is clearly above them.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
I think he's established himself as pretty powerful if he can detect and ragdoll an attempt on his life by a pissed off grandson of Anakin.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
It was a pretty quick reaction from Snoke I thought. Anyway, I think the ragdolling of any combination of "Skywalker" + "pissed off" is impressive.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Eh, it seems more like he caught an unarmed Kylo off guard there by bouncing lightning off the floor. I agree that Snoke isn't weak, maybe Dooku level? IDK.
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Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
I feel like Dooku level is a little too little for Snoke ... but we have no way of knowing.
Regardless of the circumstances, I don't think Ben could take on Snoke in a fair force contest, and he's a Skywalker [though he hasn't fully realised his potential, that's still pretty good].
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Right except that was merely TPM Maul, and “Padawan” Obi-Wan had completed his training. However Rebels Maul has ragdolled the 7th Sister. All Inquisitors are former Jedi.
Here’s the thing. Even IF he’s more powerful than Maul in the Force, that still doesn’t mean he can stop Maul Saber slicing him, given Snoke’s physical weakness and Zero Saber showings.
Also don’t forget Kylo started on his knees, so had to get up and attack before Snoke Just fires FL at him. And right after he’s shot, Snoke’s guards threaten him. The same guards we know he needs Rey’s help to defeat.
Honestly we're being really speculative here - we have no hard lower and upper limit to how strong he is relative to PT/OT characters.
It would be weird if a Skywalker of Ben's age and training were still weaker than, say, one of the B-team, so I think Snoke is solidly above Maul because I don't think Maul could ragdoll Kit Fisto and co.
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Essentially, telekinesis only works when the person is vulnerable and / or has an opening in their defenses.
There's no innate Force barrier protecting individuals like in Legends, though.
The Darth Vader comics especially show this by Vader being capable of choking Jedi Masters when they're unprepared, but the same Masters can resist when they're prepared.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Dec 24th, 2017 at 12:53 AM
No. In Legends, all Force users have lesser / passive Force barriers that are active at all times. They can then also throw up active Force barriers, which are far stronger and a reflection of their power.
In Canon, it's more of if the individual is prepared or not. The general defense to telekinesis is returning the favor with a telekinetic attack back on the person, also (ROTS, Vader comics, etc.).
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."