He agreed that Kaan's communism Sith will destroy them. And it is true from a certain point of view. But that doesn't mean he was 100% right to state that Two Should Be There>More Should Be There.
It took Bane some time to understand that no Sith wants to be replaced or lose their power in the front of another(hence why Kaan said all of the Sith Lords are equal and allowed infighting) Hence, Bane said: Sith crave power for power's sake.
He didn't understand Skere Kaan's doctrine, except when it was way too late.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
That said, Bane did want Zannah to eventually challenge/kill him. When he didn't think she would ever attempt do so, he sought out some of the other means you mentioned to try and retain power/control himself... Above all, Bane wanted the most powerful being to be the Master -- and if it wasn't going to be her, it had to be him.
As you said: power was his primary motivator(as it was for ALL Banite Sith.)
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 09:00 PM
It took decades. The Old Rule doesn't rely on that: even if it did conquer the galaxy in a faster rate: e.g: Krayt's Rule of One.
This is like arguing over apples and oranges.
Main point is that all these philosophies are flawed. But some people out here act like Rule of Two is without disadvantages.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Also, Sidious was the last Banite Sith. But even he disregarded that philosophy after he killed Plagueis. I don't think this Grand Plan has anything to do with the Banite Sith because even Marka Ragnos' spirit mentions it to Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma on Cinnagar.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Nah, if that was really the reason for abandoning the Rule of Two. Then Bane would have cast Zannah aside and take another apprentice. Bane did it out of fear of losing his power(not because Zannah didn't want to kill him) to be honest.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
It took thousands of years. Still happened, though... Never quite did with the old ways. That's all I'm saying.
Oh, I don't agree with that at all. As mentioned: both methodologies have their inherent weaknesses/disadvantages... Though I personally do prefer the Rule of Two, but to each their own. /shrug
I don't think Palpatine ever really thought Vader would try and overthrow him, until he was literally hurling down the reactor shaft in RotJ. Hence his line to Luke minutes before his death: "You... Like your father... Are now MINE!"
Regardless, Palpatine's ultimate plan/goal was, essentially, controlling the entire universe himself. He certainly didn't *need* apprentices or w/e, but he still *wanted* them... The Banite ways were too ingrained for him to ever completely abandon them, I guess.
Bane only wanted to stay in command IF Zannah was too weak to overthrow/kill him. The whole point behind learning things like Essence-Transfer and whatnot was in hopes of passing his knowledge onto a more powerful/deserving apprentice, because his current body was failing him. I don't think he ever fully abandoned the Rule of Two -- though the lines certainly became blurred toward the end.
However, his original goal was clear: he would teach Zannah everything he knew, when Zannah was ready she would challenge/kill Bane and take another apprentice for herself -- and if Zannah was too weak to kill him, she never deserved to be the Master in the first place... She just took a really long time to ever challenge him, which pissed Bane off because he thought he'd chosen an inept successor.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 09:26 PM
It seems we agree on the whole thing. But judge the Rules differently. There is no point in arguing.
Also, isn't that Disney canon with Sidious wanting to become the Satanic God?
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
"Poison should not harm a Dark Lord," he told her. Then he admitted, "Yet it almost killed me." He paused, but she didn't say anything. "There are too many Sith Lords in the Brotherhood," he went on. "Too many who are weak in the dark side. Kaan doesn't understand this."
Right or wrong, Bane believed that an abundance of Sith spread the dark side too thin, subsequently weakening all of them... And he believed it enough that he was willing to obliterate all existing Sith to reinstate the Rule of Two. /shrug
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
I answered this question on the last page, but the excerpt I posted earlier is from the Tarkin novelization, so yeah, it's Disney canon(which is canon, canon):
"And [Palpatine] would not allow himself to be sidetracked from his goal of unlocking the secrets many Sith Masters before him had sought -- the means to harness the powers of the dark side to reshape reality itself; in effect, to fashion a universe of his own creation. Not mere immortality of the sort Plagueis had lusted after, but influence of the ultimate sort."
...So from a canonical POV, reshaping the entire universe in his own image WAS Palpatine's end-goal. Non-canon/Legends material is another matter entirely(depending which source you use, of course.)
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 4th, 2018 at 01:49 AM
But Kaan did understand this. Hence he used the 'equality' myth to hold them under his control. Also, were the Brotherhood Sith really weak in the Force? Maybe Bane was talking about their Sith indoctrination and determination rather than their raw potential.
"They are weak in the dark side."
That's why Bane mocked them as an off-shot parody of the Dark Jedi.
Anyway, just because Bane believed so, that doesn't mean he was 100% right.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
We don't know if OP meant about canon Sidious, tho. Also, EU Sidious, in my opinion, just wanted knowledge(power) because he was afraid of losing it. He wanted more because he wanted more to make sure he doesn't lose what he gains.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Canon-his goal was to reshape reality itself like his Banite predecessors
Legends-his goal was to never stop amassing dark side knowledge because he wasn't sure if what he knows now is enough already
First case is about one obsessed with universal authority
Second case is about one constantly hungry for dark side knowledge
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Yes, but you seem to imply that the RoT produces only the strongest Sith Lords.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."