These two sources imply he was already fallen by the time he harnessed Malachor V's dark nexus. So, it definitely references his post-Malachor V Mass Shadow Generator version. If anything, it refers to Darth Revan's battle with the Jedi that arrived on Malachor to confront him.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Feb 1st, 2018 at 09:04 PM
I don't know why Karpyshyn hates the KotOR series, so much. Man, wished Matthew Stover wrote it. It'd have been a lot more realistic.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Revan never fell, untill he meet the emperor, he was on the path, but had not truly fallen, untill then, meaning he did look into the dark side, while still a Jedi. Hence why he could walk on malachor without being corrupted.
(Taken from my now-defunct "Power of Darth Revan" blog from 2015 - so sorry for any cringe wording)
During the war, Revan and his Jedi Crusaders continued to fall down the dark path as they sacrificed their morals for victory. Eventually, Revan and Malak discovered an ancient ruin of the Rakata species on Dantooine, where they found a Star Map - a relic of the Rakata that showed part of the location of the Rakatan space station known as the Star Forge. After much consideration, Revan consciously opened the door to the map in pursuit of the immense dark power it was radiating, despite knowing the consequence that the Jedi Order would surely banish them if they knew the truth. This was Revan's first major leap to become a full-fledged dark-sider. The map directed them to Tatooine, Manaan, and Korriban in order to find their ultimate prize - the mythical Star Forge.
During this time, Revan stumbled across Malachor V while searching for potential strongholds to withstand the Mandalorian attacks. Malachor V was a place of cultural taboo for the Mandalorians, and it was forbidden to any to step foot on it. The reason became clear when the immensely powerful dark side energies of the planet went to corrupt Revan. While the planet would later take even the likes of Darth Traya and thousands of Jedi as its own, Revan's Force and telepathic resistance were impenetrable. He allowed himself to feed on, but not be consumed by, the power of the dark side. Experiencing the true power of the planet for himself, he searched the surface for more treasure.
He found the Trayus Academy and discovered numerous Sith artifacts and holocrons, all stored in great tomb-like cities buried beneath Malachor V's surface. As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the dark side. He learned of the true nature of Korriban, he learned of the location of other Sith artifacts, and he learned how those strong in the light side of the Force could be seduced and made to see the strength inherent in the Sith teachings. Using his newfound knowledge, Revan developed a brilliant, yet evil, plan: he will push back the Mandalorian fleet to Malachor V alongside his Jedi Crusaders so he can simultaneously turn the planet's power against the Mandalorian army in battle and seduce his army of Jed to be completely loyal to him alone. Even as the Republic hailed him as a hero, every action he took during the war was to make this plan a reality. The corruption of Revan was complete.
Revan lead the charge against the Mandalorians, pushing them back and reclaiming countless worlds in the battles of the Vorzyd, Stenos, Elom, Taris, and Lianna sectors. He did more than simply bully the Mandalorian fleet into submission with raw firepower however. Canderous Ordo accounts Revan's mastery at feints, counterattacks, and mass deceptions. It is said only Revan could have done what he did, and if he hadn't intervened the galaxy would have fell to Mandalore. The actions in those battles have been long lost from the pages of history. Their only relevance for most is that it demonstrates Revan's peerless tactical prowess. It was more than that though... far more. Revan used these battles to slowly break his own forces. He didn't break them physically however, but mentally. By the time of the heart of the Mandalorian crusade that was the Battle of Dxun, Revan's forces had a deep, intense devotion and commitment to his cause. This was the plan of course - they were all unknowing pawns. Dxun served as the pinnacle of Revan's ingenious plan, and set the scene for the massacre of Malachor V.
The Battle of Dxun was arguably the bloodiest battle of the Mandalorian Wars. It was said that for every Mandalorian who died, ten Republic soldiers shared the same fate. Little does history, or the fan-base, know that this was indeed intentional. HK-47 and Meetra Surik note that the battle could have easily been won without the amount of casualties they suffered. Under the command of Meetra Surik, Revan forced her forces through "a hundred feints" during the battle, dwindling her numbers down to a quarter of their full strength. The majority of her remaining soldiers were lost during a desperate charge across a minefield as they attempted to strike at the Mandalorian emplacements, as Revan ordered. This entire charge however was completely unnecessary for victory, and there were far easier choices for a more decisive victory.
HK-47 accounts that Revan saw Dxun as a way to break Jedi psychologically in the heat of conflict. Like I mentioned a while back, Revan will use this tactic many times. Take note that the forces of Dxun were under Meetra Surik's command. Revan eliminated a large bulk of her forces and defeated the Mandalorians together in a glorious victory for himself. It is no coincidence that after this battle, the remnants of Meetra Surik's forces saw Revan single-handily annihilate a huge number of Mandalorian ground forces on Althir with casual ease. And it makes perfect sense too: Revan wanted the soldiers not loyal to the Republic or to the Jedi Exile, but rather to him. He secretly orchestrated the entire battle in order to gain the loyalty of Surik's forces. Who would they be more loyal to: the general who, in their mind, lead thousands of them to their death in an unavailingly futile ground incursion on Dxun, or the one who expeditiously obliterated Mandalorian forces on Althir and showed superior leadership abilities? The answer is obvious.
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The Battle of Malachor V was one of the deadliest and influential battles in galactic history. It marked the end of the Mandalorians as a galactic threat for the rest of time, and set the scene for the Jedi Civil Wars and First Jedi Purge. The entire battle was manipulated by Revan alone to...
1.) Eradicate the Mandalorian armada from the face of the galaxy for history.
2.) Gain an army of Jedi and Republic followers with unyielding loyalty to him.
The plan itself was highly complex and was planned by Revan since his first encounter with Malachor V.
As the game canonically says, "It is no coincidence that the Republic fleet at Malachor was composed of soldiers and Jedi whose loyalties to Revan were in doubt." Before the Battle of Malachor V, Revan split his fleet in two. He gave Meetra Surik the "tattered remains" of a portion of his armada, whose soldiers' loyalties were in doubt through the horrors of war and loss. The soldiers that remained with him were the ones he had molded into unwavering loyalty. Upon seeing the "damaged, weakened and vulnerable" armada led by Meetra Surik, the Mandalorians quickly followed them. As Revan planned, she lured them to Malachor V. Malachor V was a forbidden world to the Mandalorians - a cultural taboo that Revan used against them. If you recall, Malachor V was also a planet that contained immense dark side energies Revan planned to use against both fleets.
The battle began with Revan's fleet conveniently delayed by a mere Mandalorian scouting party. This setback was however Revan's intentions. He needed to join the battle with the Republic on the losing end of the spectrum for the next phase of the plan to effectively work. Bao-Dur, the creator of the Mass Shadow Generator, describes that, before Revan arrived, the Mandalorian forces "tore into us like beasts, shredding our ships to scrap as we fought back."
When Revan arrived with the bulk of the Republic fleet at his back, the Mandalorians realized they have been tricked. Revan used the Force to call upon the dark side energies of Malachor V and the Trayus Academy, and then released the energies against both fleets. The dark side power turned the side of the conflict while also corrupting hundreds of Jedi into his Sith minions. I will highlight the full scale of this feat later on, but please take note of its badassery. While doing this, Revan single-handily challenged Mandalore the Ultimate to a duel in single-combat. Mandalore was the greatest and deadliest Mandalorian of his time. His greatest combat feat was perhaps on the Arkanian Legacy where he defeated Malak in a single-stroke with his "infused cortosis" battle-axe, which had an installed energy cell that enabled the axe to deliver a strong electric charge "to achieve double the damage." He was ultimately insignificant to Revan's power, being deemed as "no match."
What Revan did next though was the biggest insult ever directed at the Mandalorians. Denying Mandalore his honor, he stripped him of his mask. In Mandalorian tradition, the wearer of Mandalore's mask was therefore the Mandalore. Revan however, denied them of the mask and took it with him when he left. He went and hid the mask in an isolated, long-forgotten planet in the Outer Rim (as you will later learn). This gross humiliation of their most sacred possession spoke volumes of Revan's disgust for them. As he would later say, "Honor is a fool's prize. Glory is of no use to the dead."
As the tide of the battle turned, Revan positioned his fleet outside the range of the Mass Shadow Generator, and then ordered Meetra Surik to activate the secret weapon. Moments later, a significant portion of both fleets were suddenly drawn from orbit into a vast gravity vortex that was powerful enough to crush the countless ships into the planet's crust and fracture Malachor V to its very core. During the event, Malachor V was turned into a broken cluster of planetoids that were only tenuously fused together by the gravitational anomalies present in the system. Orbiting the broken remains of the planet was the wreckage of countless Mandalorian and Republic warships. All that remained on the surface of the planet was a desolate graveyard echoing with the deaths of thousands of Jedi, Republic soldiers, and Mandalorians.
(Continued below)
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Feb 1st, 2018 at 11:55 PM
Directly following the destruction of Malachor V, Malak felt the wound of the Force that surrounded Meetra Surik and wanted Revan to use his assassin droid HK-47 to eliminate Surik, but Revan, who referred to her as a Jedi "who was already dead," wanted her to face the Council and show them the hypocrisy of their teachings, and so he let her leave. This was a very tactical move by Revan, for showing the Jedi Council how far a Jedi could fall under him echoed a message far greater than any word could.
In the aftermath of his duel with Mandalore, the Ultimate spoke that he was manipulated by the ancient Sith to go into war with the Republic. Revan and Malak went to Rekkiad following the battle, where they followed Mandalore's directions to discover the truth behind his tragic tale. There, they discovered the tomb of an ancient Sith Lord and a datacron within his sarcophagus that confirmed Mandalore's account of manipulation. The datacron spoke of a planet named Nathema, and the two Jedi decided to travel there in order to seek out the Sith who had manipulated Mandalore. Before departing, Revan left Mandalore's Mask in Dramath's sarcophagus to ensure that the Mandalorians did not rediscover it. Revan and Malak traveled to Nathema and were astonished to discover that the planet was completely barren of the Force. However, Revan and Malak resisted the sensation that they were splitting into trillions of subatomic particles that would scatter across the entire surface of Nathema. Overcoming the feeling of the void, the two learned the story of the Sith Lord Vitiate, who had lived around the time of the Great Hyperspace War between the Republic and the Sith Empire a thousand years earlier. They found out Vitiate had convinced many of the remaining Sith to join him in a ritual of Sith magic, but the Ritual of Nathema had resulted in the extinction of all life on the surface of Nathema and the immortality of Vitiate, who took on the name of Sith Emperor and gathered the younger generations of Sith before departing the remains of the shattered Sith Empire.
Determined to locate the Sith threat, Revan and Malak followed the Sith survivors' trail to the dark side world of Dromund Kaas, which they discovered to be the capital of an ancient Sith Empire. Posing as mercenaries, the pair spent months learning everything they could about the Empire and its ruler, and they soon uncovered the Emperor's plans for an invasion of the Republic. But instead of warning the known Jedi, the two fallen Jedi—proud and overconfident—believed that they could defeat the Emperor alone, and they looked for a way to infiltrate the Imperial Citadel so that they could confront the Sith ruler. The pair received aid from Yarri, a member of the Imperial Guard who protected the Emperor, but the Jedi were unaware that all Guardsmen were bound to the Emperor's will and that she was leading them into a trap. They went and confronted the Emperor, but he was waiting for them. Instead of fighting them, he overpowered their wills and corrupted them to the dark side, proclaiming them Darth Revan and Darth Malak. Jedi scholars attribute their fall to the dark side at the hands of the Emperor, but this is far from the truth. As aforementioned, Revan was already deeply immersed in the dark side.
Revan was described as being a master of the dark side of the Force as far back as the Mandalorian Wars, as evidenced by his corruption of his Republic fleet on Malachor V. Revan had already deeply embraced the dark side by this point, so attributing his fall to the Emperor is laughable. Instead, all the Emperor merely did was proclaim them Sith Lords and Darths, which makes sense: Revan was merely an immensely corrupted fallen Jedi - not a Sith. It also makes logical sense that the Emperor would be able to corrupt them to his personal servants since they were already carrying a tremendous dark side taint, as Bastila Shan explains in Knights of the Old Republic. I would also like to point out that Vitiate proclaimed Revan and Malak as Darths immediately following their encounter. This has never been done in the history of Vitiate's empire, even to the likes of Darth Malgus, Darth Nox, or Darth Thanaton. It was unheard of that the Emperor would appoint two mere people that don't even have ranks within the Sith Empire to one of the highest positions possible. Not only this, but the Emperor proclaimed Revan and Malak as the "vanguard" of the entire Sith Order! This is a testament to the great dark side power the two wielded. The Emperor overestimated the willpower of Darth Revan and Darth Malak however, and they shortly broke free of his mental domination following the encounter. The Emperor, knowing that the pair already had knowledge on the Star Forge, sent them out to retrieve the device for his Sith Empire.
Revan himself has a different version saying, "Our minds twisted and perverted his instructions until we thought we were acting of our own accord... partially freeing us from his control.” This however, is far from the truth. Not only did Revan and Malak fully break themselves from his control, but they triggered the Jedi Civil War in hopes to stopping the Emperor. But, who cares what I think? I concede that my personal opinion on what happened is meaningless if Revan said otherwise, but I am supported by something far greater than mere words - actions. Virtually every source in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords, from in-universe characters to the game creators themselves, confirm Revan's actions in the Jedi Civil War was to "unify the galaxy against" a threat in the Unknown Regions - the true Sith Empire. The game describes it better than I can with the quote, "There was a pattern to Revan's attacks during the Jedi Civil War. He sought to convert Jedi, not kill them. But that is not all. In fact, he fought to keep the infrastructure intact, killed certain political leaders that would lead to destabilization - first patriarch Lelin-Dor of Serroco, the Corellian diplomat Mimas Yoon, and Yusanis of Echani." In fact, the game notes that Revan intentionally left worlds like Onderon unaffected by the Jedi Civil War. Why? "Its resources and position on the Rim make it a vital supply line and a guard post against Outer Rim attacks."
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Feb 1st, 2018 at 11:51 PM
Because you say so? How do you know? Haschwalth's K2 source states that he turned/corrupted others to the Sith. We know that he only did that when he was already a Sith Lord.
Even so: Your big wall proves that Revan was fallen to the dark side.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Because it's stated in Chronicles of the Old Republic.
CotOR has some inaccuracies, but so does TCSWE and CotOR is upheld by Chee on numerous occasions and was posted on both swtor.com and kotor.com.
It is a period of turmoil in the Galaxy. The fierce Mandalorian warrior race begins the MANDALORIAN WAR by viciously and simultaneously attacking three quadrants of Republic space. As the battle rages on, Jedi Master REVAN moves surreptitiously between unknown sectors, scouting for potential strongholds to withstand the attacks. He soon discovers the shadowy Malachor V, a planet listed by Mandalorian scholars as "forbidden" to step foot on. The reason for this soon becomes clear as Revan is almost devoured by primal Sith forces on the world's surface. Revan's will allows him to feed on (and not be consumed by) the power of the dark side. Revan develops an evil but brilliant plan: Using the dark power of Malachor V, he will seduce an army of Jedi, completely loyal to him alone. He will then turn the planet's evil power against the Mandalorian army in battle, luring them to his stronghold and destroying them completely. A stronghold is immediately constructed.
Meanwhile on Dantooine, the small Jedi academy overseen by Master Vodo-Siosk Baas is shocked to learn that a lone Jedi Padawan has disobeyed a direct order from Jedi Master ATRIS, a prominent Jedi on the Council. This single student has left behind the relative safety of the training grounds to fight alongside the Jedi loyal to Master Revan. But this young one, like the other Jedi brethren, is unaware of the tremendous dark side power wielded by Revan and the terrible secrets of Malachor V. Revan's power continues to grow, and he secretly strengthens his stronghold, hiding it even from his apprentice, DARTH MALAK. Soon, the evil force infecting the planet became the FORGE for Darth Revan's shock troops; the feared SITH ASSASSINS - fallen Jedi, tempted and cajoled by the evil of Malachor V, and under Revan's evil command. Soon, a shadow academy to the one on Korriban is constructed; and an evil enclave mirroring the Jedi academy on Dantooine is complete.
It is a period of tumult and astuteness for the galaxy's most powerful entities, as the Mandalorian conflict culminates. The Jedi, fighting alongside the Republic and their finest tactical minds, such as Admiral SAUL KARATH aboard his flagship Leviathan, begin to force the fierce Mandalorians back into a retreat. The rout of the Mandalorians reaches a crescendo above the skies of Malachor V. Unbeknownst to the Jedi Order, DARTH REVAN has discovered numerous Sith artifacts and holocrons, all stored in great tomb-like cities buried beneath Malachor V's surface. As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side. He learned of the location and the true nature of Korriban, he learned of the location of other Sith artifacts, and he learned how those strong in the light side of the Force could be seduced and made to see the strength inherent in the Sith teachings.
Revan knew he had discovered more than a staging area for the Mandalorian War - he had discovered an ancient, planet-sized Sith storehouse of knowledge. He had discovered a world that held one purpose - to teach and train others in the ways of the Sith. He had discovered a weapon that he could use against the Mandalorians, and a weapon by which he could convert more Jedi to his cause. This process of "turning" Jedi into SITH ASSASSINS continued even as the Jedi Council hailed Revan as a hero, as he lead the Republic forces to victory over the Mandalorians in the skies above Malachor V, and forces them to surrender. Revan is able to draw upon the dark side energies of the planet below and use it during the battle, destroying the Mandalore and ending the Mandalorian threat. Simultaneously, more and more Jedi, unable to ignore the power emanating from the planet below, become corrupted by its influence.
A lone Jedi Knight, who had journeyed earlier to fight alongside Revan, forsakes him after the surrender of the Mandalorians - and the apparent loss of the Knight's connection to the Force during the battle - and journeys back to the Old Republic, determined not to fight any longer. The Knight is exiled by the Jedi Order, and the Knight's lightsaber is removed. Meanwhile, Darth Revan and his apprentice, DARTH MALAK, return from the Mandalorian War with a new fleet, comprising many previously loyal Republic soldiers and commanders, and a systematic and lethal attack begins. In tandem with the attacks of his fleet, Revan orders his SITH ASSASSINS to ratchet up the frequency and brutality of their swift attack strikes. The period of history known as the Old Republic Insurrection begins.
Revan began corrupting Jedi to the Sith ideology before he ever met Vitiate, as I noted in my "big wall" from 2015.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 12:45 PM
And I get the feeling you don't know what I and Haschwalth talk about. He was fallen to the dark side. Period.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
a.) by you, that Revan did the Malachor stuff in the Jedi Civil War and not the Mandalorian Wars, which is false
b.) by Hasch, that Revan did not embrace the dark side until he met Vitiate, which is false
Fair?
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Feb 1st, 2018 12:28 PM
Thanks Scribble!
