Re: why TLJ WAS NOT a movie of feminism or equality
Just a few thoughts from my own feminist perspective:
1) Finn and Roses storyline had plenty of relevance to the plot. I heartily disagree with people in this criticism. Finn goes from trying to flee the rebellion to trying to sacrifice himself for it and their plot is highly relevant to the chase plotline, even if its only to contribute to the failure of Holdo's plan.
2) Lukes "mansplaining" was actually wrong and Rey was largely in the right. For all his attempts to teach her that the Jedi must die she dismisses that viewpoint and proves that Jedi are still needed to protect the galaxy, with Luke ultimately being swayed to her position in the end.
3) Rey not having special origins yet still being able to compete with the special Skywalker bloodline is actually a huge positive in her favor.
4) Having white male villains do villainous things towards the heroes isn't a mark against a films message of feminism.
5) I do largely agree with you that SW has been white male dominated for the majority of its history and deserves criticism as such. I don't think its really fair to blame TLJ for that though or to say it isn't feminist because of the previous movies.
excuse me but sam harris has showed sympathy for so called 'race realism' which says blacks are inferior to whites. he has also said many questionable things about muslims and their faith.
__________________ "Probably my worst quality is that I get very passionate about what I think is right." - Hillary Clinton.
"I don't feel no ways tired. I've been too far, from where I started from. Nobody told me that the road would be easy! I don't believe he brought me this far to leave me! "- Rev. James Cleaveland yesterday, today, and tomorrow - the fight continues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFwRkNWx-n0 love and kindness:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHp69F7vrLU
@nephthys: those are some interesting perspectives. it will be interesting to see where they go in the next movie. without rian johnson there may be an opportunity for greater importance for characters like finn. because although you raise a good point about that storyline being more important than most say, it is clear that finns role is downgraded from the first movie. also that is an interesting silver lining in reys origins but it sounded a lot more disappointing when i first saw it.
so why would you call him solid?? he spreads racist ideals that have no place in our society and also preaches hate about muslims in the same way donald trump does.
__________________ "Probably my worst quality is that I get very passionate about what I think is right." - Hillary Clinton.
"I don't feel no ways tired. I've been too far, from where I started from. Nobody told me that the road would be easy! I don't believe he brought me this far to leave me! "- Rev. James Cleaveland yesterday, today, and tomorrow - the fight continues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFwRkNWx-n0 love and kindness:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHp69F7vrLU
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No sweetie, the women you mentioned are mainstream hacks.
I'll stick to Shulamith Firestone, Monique Wittig, and Marge Piercy, among other true feminists.
I don't condone death threats or censorship from either side. Unfortunately Sarkeesian herself tried to sue her internet "trolls" which regardless of your political stances just looks immature and demonstrates a lack of tolerance.
Are you saying GTA V gives preferential treatment for killing women over men?
This video best sums up why Sarkeesian doesn't know jackshit about video games and exploits the ignorance of non-gamers (I don't support this man's side-comments or channel though):
__________________ "Technology equals might!" "Evolve or perish"
i am not a 'sweetie' thank you. and gta V objectifies women and shows them as prostitutes and allows gruesome violent acts to be committed against them. it shows them as objects to be used by men. this article on tumblr has a quote that explains it perfectly.:
__________________ "Probably my worst quality is that I get very passionate about what I think is right." - Hillary Clinton.
"I don't feel no ways tired. I've been too far, from where I started from. Nobody told me that the road would be easy! I don't believe he brought me this far to leave me! "- Rev. James Cleaveland yesterday, today, and tomorrow - the fight continues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFwRkNWx-n0 love and kindness:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHp69F7vrLU
Sarkeesian is pretty bad, yeah. Or at least fairly mediocre. But the frothing rage she inspires is honestly quite disturbing and certainly comes from a sexist place. Whatever the faults of her content, they are completely outweighted by the glimpse into the fragile male ego and toxicity of nerd culture the absurd backlash to her inspired. In this sense shes a very interesting figure.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 07:46 PM
Re: why TLJ WAS NOT a movie of feminism or equality
I agree with you aayla, great post. Boys nowadays are so insecure that as soon as they see a woman who’s not your typical damsel in distress they start seeing feminism everywhere.
Hollywood is full of crap...this film is about feminism blah blah blah, then if it under performs it's the fault of sexist fans.
The movie has issues that have nothing to do with race, sex, etc
They have a weak emo kid as the main bad guy and treated the more interesting villain as a throw away.
As for Rey as much as they'd like her to be a new Star Wars icon, we just don't connect with her like we did with Luke skywalker. He was loved for his character, the way he interacted with other characters.
no i am not a troll or a sock as i have said on many occasions. you can look up on-line about feminist critiques regarding the last jedi. there are not many unfortunately but they are there and echo my criticisms.
__________________ "Probably my worst quality is that I get very passionate about what I think is right." - Hillary Clinton.
"I don't feel no ways tired. I've been too far, from where I started from. Nobody told me that the road would be easy! I don't believe he brought me this far to leave me! "- Rev. James Cleaveland yesterday, today, and tomorrow - the fight continues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFwRkNWx-n0 love and kindness:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHp69F7vrLU
They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."
Oh, no. I assumed that this would get ignored and lost quickly, and thus refrained from commenting. Am regretting decision.
So, as for the actual things stated in your original post, the movie was a movie. It had people in it. That's about as much it needs to be fair. The gender/race of the characters should not be taken into account. Simply even noticing the race/gender of the characters stereotypes them and puts them in boxes. I'm willing to bet that the creators were sitting around a table, thinking about where to put each character so that all people could be equal. A man and a woman (Rey and Kylo) were equals in their arc. Another man and another woman (Finn and Rose) were equals. A black person and a white person were equals in their arc together (Finn and Poe). I mean, you could really have argued that it was "anti-white" because Poe had such a small role/arc compared to Finn, as they were considered equals in the Force Awakens (same could be said about TFA)
The biggest problem, in my opinion, is noticing race and gender. These are just people. That's all that matters. No need to MAKE the "black one" and "woman" and "white man" characters based on these identities. Because these identities are superficial. Cosmetic. Unimportant.
Being serious for a while, ignoring the obviously 'tarded or trolling OP, this is a perfect post. I entirely, purely agree.
Nobody had problems with Jyn Erso in R1, nobody had problem that the Rogue One protags were "diverse". All of these characters were in their place, there wasn't any feeling of a forced agenda or a useless character just there to be different.
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They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."
I don't think anyone has a problem with her being female it's just that they made other mistakes that hurt the film, Kylo being a cry baby, killing Snoke, killing Han Solo when it didn't even fully turn Kylo. Same with rogue one, didn't care it was a chick, I didn't like agitated at krennic being a weak villain, I did enjoy Vader making an appearance