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FOX vs. MCU
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Nephthys
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An AI hacking another AI? Must be magic.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 12:32 AM
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Blindside12
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Which is basically hacking his mind...Lol.

The mind stone has control over anything sentient in the universe, that includes AI.


I remember seeing the Mind Stone hacking Hawkeye, which results to be the same gem Vision is carrying in his head. There is no evidence to say the mind stone doesn't work the same way.


No he used his AI to hack him.

There is no evidence to say Vision can mind control anyone the way the staff was rigged to do.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 12:46 AM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blindside12
No he used his AI to hack him.

There is no evidence to say Vision can mind control anyone the way the staff was rigged to do.


No. All powers from Vision are derived from the Stone in his head. Which means he can use the stone to hack into other forms of intelligence/ other minds.

Except he already did, which is Ultron. And again, he possesses an infinity stone which results to be the mind stone.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 12:49 AM
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Blindside12
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No. All powers from Vision are derived from the Stone in his head. Which means he can use the stone to hack into other forms of intelligence/ other minds.

Except he already did, which is Ultron. And again, he possesses an infinity stone which results to be the mind stone.


Incorrect, the gem powers his body, his AI / consciousness existed before hand as Jarvis.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 12:55 AM
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I will get a mod ruling so we can move on.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 12:57 AM
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Nibedicus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Not necessarily due to the fact that the explosion impacted him.

I mean, you can clearly notice that it is like if the Surfer is releasing energy from his body. Perhaps it was more of him getting depowered or drained that would represent a threat.

Also as I said before, this ain't a normal explosion. We can't really compare it with an Earthly one.

All the clips of that scene seem to be cut for the moment. But i clearly recall it stating that it was Thor's biggest/most powerful lightning.

By that Odin was trying to say that the hammer wasn't his source of power. Which means that by such point Thor didn't longer needed the hammer.

Thor is now independent of the hammer.

One way or another Hela received an impact that could rival Sokovia's with 0 damage. Also, there is no evidence the Surfer is immune to such levels of power.


How is it not a “normal” explosion? What would a “normal” explosion be exactly? You think the writers would have the audience analyze what a “normal explosion” is and go differentiate the on screen explosion in that way? I don’t think so. An explosion you see on screen is an explosion unless otherwise stated on screen. Attempting to discredit a showing to prevent its quantification is a cheap tactic. Even if there are differences between an in-Earth atmoshpere explosion and an in-Galactus explosion (who seems to have a powerful gravitatiobal pull, thus would possibly have an atmosphere fof dust at least), the orders of magnitudes demonstrated would still be not be too far apart. End of the day, the magnitudes between Thor’s best strike vs Surfer’s is so far apart that you might as well be complaining about yield inaccuracies when compare a nuke to a firecracker.

That is irrelevant. The explosion radiating outward from him would still put him at ground zero of the explosion. It would still affect him. And the dialogue proves it. Again, the writers would not require that level of deductive reasoning (without providing on screen clues or indicators) from its audience just to break down such a simple scene. Especially when there is an obvious on screen story flow that is well supported by dialogue (he saying “we both die” as he blows himself up means that he meant to kill them both by him blowing himself up).

The Surfer sacrificed himself by using all his power to blow himself up to take out Galactus. Him surviving it is stupid (but likely insisted on by the producers to make a sequel of spinoff possible) but happened on screen. Story flow suppoetts it, dialogue supports it.

My evidence (literal character dialogue, story flow and visuals) is just so much better supported than your theories.

I was asking if it was either biggest or most poweful cuz I’m not sure which one it was.

Odin’s exact words were:

“The hammer was to help you control your power, to focus it. It was never your source of strength.”

Meaning that he didn’t need it to access his thundergod powers BUT it still helps him control and focus his energy. Seeing as that it is rumored that he is getting a new hammer for IW, this seems to be true.

What relevance is her surviving Thor’s attack that might as well be an ant bite compared to Surfer’s best attack?

Except for the fact that Surfer being ground zero of his Galactus buster means that he has survived much much much much x 1000 worse than Thor’s lightning?

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 01:05 AM
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Blindside12
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Not necessarily due to the fact that the explosion impacted him.

I mean, you can clearly notice that it is like if the Surfer is releasing energy from his body. Perhaps it was more of him getting depowered or drained that would represent a threat.

Also as I said before, this ain't a normal explosion. We can't really compare it with an Earthly one.

All the clips of that scene seem to be cut for the moment. But i clearly recall it stating that it was Thor's biggest/most powerful lightning.

By that Odin was trying to say that the hammer wasn't his source of power. Which means that by such point Thor didn't longer needed the hammer.

Thor is now independent of the hammer.


One way or another Hela received an impact that could rival Sokovia's with 0 damage. Also, there is no evidence the Surfer is immune to such levels of power.


Do you have any idea how small the Sokovia and Asgard blast was compared to the Surfer blast?

Your trying to compare a blast smaller then a portion of a small city to this:

(please log in to view the image)


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 01:29 AM
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TheVaultDweller
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
An AI hacking another AI? Must be magic.


laughing

Well played.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 02:19 AM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nibedicus
How is it not a “normal” explosion? What would a “normal” explosion be exactly? You think the writers would have the audience analyze what a “normal explosion” is and go differentiate the on screen explosion in that way? I don’t think so. An explosion you see on screen is an explosion unless otherwise stated on screen. Attempting to discredit a showing to prevent its quantification is a cheap tactic. Even if there are differences between an in-Earth atmoshpere explosion and an in-Galactus explosion (who seems to have a powerful gravitatiobal pull, thus would possibly have an atmosphere fof dust at least), the orders of magnitudes demonstrated would still be not be too far apart. End of the day, the magnitudes between Thor’s best strike vs Surfer’s is so far apart that you might as well be complaining about yield inaccuracies when compare a nuke to a firecracker.

That is irrelevant. The explosion radiating outward from him would still put him at ground zero of the explosion. It would still affect him. And the dialogue proves it. Again, the writers would not require that level of deductive reasoning (without providing on screen clues or indicators) from its audience just to break down such a simple scene. Especially when there is an obvious on screen story flow that is well supported by dialogue (he saying “we both die” as he blows himself up means that he meant to kill them both by him blowing himself up).

The Surfer sacrificed himself by using all his power to blow himself up to take out Galactus. Him surviving it is stupid (but likely insisted on by the producers to make a sequel of spinoff possible) but happened on screen. Story flow suppoetts it, dialogue supports it.

My evidence (literal character dialogue, story flow and visuals) is just so much better supported than your theories.

I was asking if it was either biggest or most poweful cuz I’m not sure which one it was.

Odin’s exact words were:

“The hammer was to help you control your power, to focus it. It was never your source of strength.”

Meaning that he didn’t need it to access his thundergod powers BUT it still helps him control and focus his energy. Seeing as that it is rumored that he is getting a new hammer for IW, this seems to be true.

What relevance is her surviving Thor’s attack that might as well be an ant bite compared to Surfer’s best attack?

Except for the fact that Surfer being ground zero of his Galactus buster means that he has survived much much much much x 1000 worse than Thor’s lightning?


Except you forget the fact that we here aren't normal audience people. We know about the heroes/villains and the stories behind these. An explosion you say, that is not an explosion, there was no fireball nor did it harm Earth.

A normal explosion of such a magnitude would have harmed Earth due to the proximity of it!

Even if the thermal wave didn't touch earth, the radiation and shock waves would have had collateral damage in Earth. Yet somehow you have an explosion that apparently is thousands of nukes strong yet it doesn't even kill a fly in earth!

It's anything but a normal detonation!



The Surfer outcasted the energy, he didn't got impact.

It's like saying that Thor is invulnerable to anything just because he can get impacted by lightnings without damage. Lightning is Thor's own power, obviously it won't affect him.


So again, it's more like Surfer getting drained of power, than the impact/damage of the "explosion" killing him. But again, that's anything but a normal explosion.


So again, that is not to my criteria a solid feat. And there is still Galactus' 0 durablilty feats.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 02:21 AM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blindside12
Do you have any idea how small the Sokovia and Asgard blast was compared to the Surfer blast?

Your trying to compare a blast smaller then a portion of a small city to this:

(please log in to view the image)



If the impact would have damaged a planet or a moot at least i would recognize the feat. Yet it only dispersed/evaporized/destroyed dust/vapor/gas.


Again, i can't take such a feat, specially considering that Galactus has no durability feats.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 02:22 AM
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Blindside12
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We'll have to request mod rulings then on this as well.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 02:25 AM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blindside12
We'll have to request mod rulings then on this as well.


If you wish.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 02:32 AM
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Nibedicus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1) Except you forget the fact that we here aren't normal audience people. We know about the heroes/villains and the stories behind these. An explosion you say, that is not an explosion, there was no fireball nor did it harm Earth.

2) A normal explosion of such a magnitude would have harmed Earth due to the proximity of it!

Even if the thermal wave didn't touch earth, the radiation and shock waves would have had collateral damage in Earth. Yet somehow you have an explosion that apparently is thousands of nukes strong yet it doesn't even kill a fly in earth!

It's anything but a normal detonation!

3) The Surfer outcasted the energy, he didn't got impact.

It's like saying that Thor is invulnerable to anything just because he can get impacted by lightnings without damage. Lightning is Thor's own power, obviously it won't affect him.

So again, it's more like Surfer getting drained of power, than the impact/damage of the "explosion" killing him. But again, that's anything but a normal explosion.

4) So again, that is not to my criteria a solid feat. And there is still Galactus' 0 durablilty feats.


1) There is literally no one (or such a small percent of the audience, that it would be statistically insignificant) that would immediately think “death by energy drain” when looking at that scene as it is scripted. The only ppl that would are battleboarders who want a specific outcome but can’t face facts. That is called confirmation bias.

2) No it wouldn’t have. Even the calculator I showed is saying that the distance (25-35k kms) is far enough to avoid suffering any of the explosion’s worst effects other than the thermal wave (heat) which would likely bounce/deflect off the Earth’s atmosphere/magnetic field like Solar wind does.

3) Shooting a lightning/beam is different from detonating. And the same Sokovia explosion that you are using as an example knocked Thor TFO. If you cannot grasp this logic even when it comes from your own example, then we have nothing to talk about.

Script and facts are on my side and are consistent. Your logic requires some serious mental acrobatics for it to be even believable.

4) How many times do I have to say that Galactus (and his durability) is irrelevant here? Pls read my posts. Are you simply posting this as a red herring?

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 05:17 AM
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TheVaultDweller
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^^ The irony of this is that Josh routinely accuses other posters of twisting feats and facts to suit them.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 05:33 AM
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Nibedicus
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Well, I don’t mind the debate. I’m fine with Josh. We’re just having a little fun here. Hehe. stick out tongue

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 08:09 AM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nibedicus
1) There is literally no one (or such a small percent of the audience, that it would be statistically insignificant) that would immediately think “death by energy drain” when looking at that scene as it is scripted. The only ppl that would are battleboarders who want a specific outcome but can’t face facts. That is called confirmation bias.

2) No it wouldn’t have. Even the calculator I showed is saying that the distance (25-35k kms) is far enough to avoid suffering any of the explosion’s worst effects other than the thermal wave (heat) which would likely bounce/deflect off the Earth’s atmosphere/magnetic field like Solar wind does.

3) Shooting a lightning/beam is different from detonating. And the same Sokovia explosion that you are using as an example knocked Thor TFO. If you cannot grasp this logic even when it comes from your own example, then we have nothing to talk about.

Script and facts are on my side and are consistent. Your logic requires some serious mental acrobatics for it to be even believable.

4) How many times do I have to say that Galactus (and his durability) is irrelevant here? Pls read my posts. Are you simply posting this as a red herring?


1.And yet anyone with a bit of understanding over explosives knows that a normal bomb doesn't create a vaccum to later explote! At least not nuclear warheads.

Again, it's irresponisible to just compare such a blast with Earthly ones! Just like you can't compare fireworks with RPG shells or granades.

You also forget the fact that a large magnitude bomb doesn't necessarily means high destruction capability in an specific object.

https://www.seeker.com/is-lightning...1765058578.html

Normal lightning for instance have been recorded to be hotter than the Sun. No nuclear warhead made by man has ever surpassed the Sun's heat, or at least not to my knowledge.

Thor's Lightning are way beyond normal Earth Lightning.

2. Ehhhhhh.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRhStl7SQnM

If you are right, and the Surfer's bomb is like a nuclear warhead then....Earth would have felt it!!!

The blast of that "explosion" was seen crossing through Earth. Yet we saw no EMP effects nor Radiation effects.

Again, that is anything but an earthly bomb





3. Except Thor striked the ground which in return exploded and sent him flying away. Isn't like the Surfer which just outcasted the energy vaporizing Galactus.

We see the same example in Odin's Keep when the lightning destroys the building. He is sent flying away due to the explosion of this one, not due to his own power/energy.

It's like saying that somehow Superman would vaporize his eyes every time he uses his laser beams.

4. Now you read mines.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 07:15 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Well, I don’t mind the debate. I’m fine with Josh. We’re just having a little fun here. Hehe. stick out tongue


Thanks! Me too. And i know, but am very skeptical when taking feats. I analyze the hole panorama before giving my opinion.

That explosion to me isn't normal, that's why i am skeptical to take it as a normal nuclear explosion for instance.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 07:17 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
^^ The irony of this is that Josh routinely accuses other posters of twisting feats and facts to suit them.


No, that's only you, Quanchi, Froth, and Silent.

Why can't you debate like Nibedicus? He is actually bringing evidence to back up his words.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 07:18 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
^^ The irony of this is that Josh routinely accuses other posters of twisting feats and facts to suit them.


Nibedicus:
quote:
Even the calculator I showed is saying that the distance (25-35k kms) is far enough to avoid suffering any of the explosion’s worst effects other than the thermal wave (heat) which would likely bounce/deflect off the Earth’s atmosphere/magnetic field like Solar wind does.


See? That's how feats are brought. He actually brings numbers to counter my words. A nice debate!


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 07:20 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Thanks! Me too. And i know, but am very skeptical when taking feats. I analyze the hole panorama before giving my opinion.

That explosion to me isn't normal, that's why i am skeptical to take it as a normal nuclear explosion for instance.


Edit: whole.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 07:22 PM
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