Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Malak's quote is hilariously ambiguous without authorial intent, and with it you're opening a pandora's box to very much the demise of your own argument.
Plagueis' quote is a dead horse, and ironically that only proves my point about the supposed factuality of the quote in question.
Vitiate's debatable, because if you do take him as a Sith through and through, Kun isn't factually inferior until 350 years after he's dead. Though again, given statements in SOR, he's still very much up there with him as a spirit.
So, not really, no.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Avellone was comparing characters within his story to characters created outside of his story,(which are not under his purview) with no review from LFL. Veitch's statement is empirically contradicted by TPM Sidious being the most powerful sith lord.
__________________ "I killed them, of course. Just as I killed the Guardian. Just as I now kill you."
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Avellone confirmed that as Kreia stated in dialogue, all of Malak, Nihilus and every other fvcker of the era, besides arguably Revan, are sub-ancient Sith. That's entirely within his purview.
You do know the TPM Sheev = GOAT Sith quotes are Canon, right?
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Sure, but such a statement is not under Kreia's authority to make as she never sensed the power of SF Malak nor the power of Exar Kun. Her statement and Avellone's codification has far less merit than a quote directly edited and approved by Leland Chee.
__________________ "I killed them, of course. Just as I killed the Guardian. Just as I now kill you."
Last edited by DarthSkywalker0 on Mar 18th, 2018 at 06:07 AM
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Which is irrelevant when Avellone confirms she is right in this regard. You realise that Chee and Lucas both 'reviewed and edited' the Plagueis novel and yet even that was stated by Chee to be subject to subjective claims that weren't factual, right? That's factually a far more credible source than anything in a web supplement.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
1. He has limited purview over all of his characters, as he is only an employee for Lucas Licensing and may not be cognizant of all of their plans. Also, he was not one of the creators of Kun nor Malak, so he has very little authority it such broadband statements.
2. The point only works if blurbs are approved by the editing staff, which I doubt.
3. That is their problem.
__________________ "I killed them, of course. Just as I killed the Guardian. Just as I now kill you."
That doesn't explain your own change in willingness to accept arguments. Whether or not I believe it, you do. It'd be hypocritical of you to dismiss it in this case out of hand just because it doesn't align with your agenda.
I didn't buy the previous case because it wasn't convincing and didn't match the context. You were obviously just trying to duck out of accepting something you didn't like. Here it has more merit and aligns better with Kun's holistic portrayal. AP raised another good point about Kun's portrayal in the JA era. Not that I actually said I buy this idea, just that it does have merit and is an extremely viable interpretation.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Mar 18th, 2018 at 03:08 PM
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Riiiight. I'm a hypocrite for pointing that Muur only "outshone" Krayt insofar as he had healing powers he coveted, could raise armies of rakghouls and cheapshotted him, and also for making the simple observation that Malak didn't acquire "new powers" from the Star Forge, and that in the context of the quote, it wasn't talking about anything other than Malak's own power.
It's not like we should consider context or anything, let's just take all of this at face value like you (depending on when we like the quote).
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
The Star Forge feeds on the dark side and heals you via trapped Force users' essences. That's all. And it also creates battle machines.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
First off all, this is not a thing. Just had to check, and AP isn't lying (i know?). The Jedi Masters claiming Revan the finest student they've seen weren't around during Kun's traineeship. Vrook Lmar and his deliberating council, oversaw the training on Dantooine after Vodo Bass died. For this accolade to include Exar Kun, Vodo needs to be the one making it. But much like this premise, he was dead. Moving on.
Irrelevant in more ways than one. Visibly speaking, Malak isn't using any old powers greater than Exar Kun. If the accolade is merely an analysis of their conventional abilties it can be dismissed for it's (vast) un-objecitvity. A misinterpretation so off the mark, it failed to account for the wide disparity in feats from Kun's pre-prime and weaker incarnations and Malak's strongest.
Irrelevant. If necklaces, swords, amulets and other artefacts can afford the wielder esoteric powers, such as Muur's Talisman and Ragnos' sceptre, than the quote in question, which alludes to some possible object being the source of the far greater powers, can certainly refer to esoteric techniques. A number of which is granted to users of the Star Forge.
So.... Malak has stronger will power than unknown sith of an unknown number that tried to control the Forge. Impressive, perhaps you're going to tell me how Dath Krayt is the strongest sith lord because he scales of his sith troopers. Oh wait.
You would think that wouldn't you. That because the Star Forge is powered by a star the entire process trickles down to this - Malak having power relative to a meaningful fraction of the Sun. But that doesn't appear to be the case.
Exhibit A)
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The bodies struck by lighting here aren't disintegrated, let alone burned to a crisp or desecrated in a grotesque manner. All three of which would happen even at a good half million miles distance from a star. Pretty pathetic considering 1) he's being empowered by the forge here 2) lighting deflection is often only thwarted by tutaminis and not lesser force defences 3) The Jedi in question are random no names 4) No named Jedi are usually memetic cannon fodder - Jango Fett kills 8 with his bare hands 5) The Jedi would be spending an inordinate amount of their will-power just contending with the corruptive nature of the Forge 6) much less of that will power can be channelled to defend against a sith lord. 7) they might not have even died. This is a sub Alema Keto showing. Much less an Exar Kunt hallmark, Who at this point could simply wave a hand in Malak's direction and defeat him, Star Forge or not.
Exhibit B)
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Against Revan, Malak reveals the Star Forge's final gimmick - the ability to draw from the energy of random Jedi. Now what is a random Jedi captive compared to the power of a blazing hot Star you might ask? And if Malak's power = a star, why is he even considering jedi captives as some sort of meaningful boon? When just a fraction of a star should put him in "excess of" the most powerful and dangerous of all sith lords including Maul and Vader. Well clearly based off this premise and the one above, the power he's tapping into, does not give him a (relevant) fraction of a Sun's energy. The evidence in your previous post likely infers the reason to this.
While Malak is capable of harnessing some degree of the Star Forge's energy, it stands to reason that much like a spectrum, there's is a limit to the amount of energy he can bathe himself in without being "devoured" too, and while he's better at resisting this effect than the other random sith that came before him, his control has a limitation. It's a reasonable assertion that explains why - His lightning powers don't burn victims with the intensity of the sun 2 - He's chooses to draw anergy from Jedi captives 3) why Revan can defeat him in the first instance.
Which can be in reference to power(s) alternative to the conventional ones displayed. But even still, it's just claim made without evidence or a reliable analysis of the events themselves. And as such, they can be dismissed without evidence. But in this case a basic comparison of Kun vs Malak in the showings department favours the former immensely. Thematically speaking, it took the entire Jedi order using the most devastating attack possible to (not completely) kill Kun. It only took one exceptionally powerful Jedi to kill Malak. Personally i think that Kun would have an easier time of it and there's no question he wins against Mace Windu.
Last edited by JMANGO on Mar 20th, 2018 at 02:11 AM
@JMANGO try to cheer up a bit.
If all you wanted to say was "I'm a feats only guy" then you might have tried opening with that, instead of wasting everyone's time.
They can if they are designed that way; therefore it's self evident if they provide new powers. You're yet to prove that the Star Forge grants Malak new powers. More importantly, these powers are "far greater" than Kun or Nadd, so I'll leave you to meditate on what that might entail.
My, my. Deliberately missing the point in order to take a cheap dig. Seems beneath your talents, Zig. I wasn't arguing Malak's impressiveness, I was explaining to you that the significance of the Star Forge, according to the quotes posted earlier discussing it, is the power increase Malak draws from it, rather than your unsubstantiated claim that it simply grants Malak "esoteric powers."
No, it just means that Malak doesn't need to "draw from all it's power at once" in order to be granted power superior to Kun.
As for your essay on how, *gasp*, Malak isn't producing a sun's worth of power, that doesn't actually disprove the quote. You can certainly argue Kun has better feats, something I'd agree with, but perhaps your posts would drip less of desperation if you'd stop misrepresenting my positions every 2 seconds. Just a thought.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Through the Star Forge, couldn't Malak produce and endless number of warships and droids all drenched and enhanced by the dark side? That does come under the umbrella of "far greater powers than Kun or Nadd" doesn't it? Just curious.
Mar 18th, 2018 05:47 AM
