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What if Eonwe replaced Gandalf in the LOTR story?
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Jmanghan
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What if Eonwe replaced Gandalf in the LOTR story?

As the title says.


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Old Post Nov 15th, 2018 04:50 AM
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Stealth Moose
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jmanghan
As the title says.


None of the Maia were allowed to directly challenge Sauron, but I'm sure Eonwe would make short work of pretty much every orc alive.


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Old Post Nov 22nd, 2018 06:31 AM
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Jmanghan
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
None of the Maia were allowed to directly challenge Sauron, but I'm sure Eonwe would make short work of pretty much every orc alive.
Didn't Eonwe drag Sauron back for judgement?


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Old Post Nov 22nd, 2018 10:43 AM
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Stealth Moose
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Didn't Eonwe drag Sauron back for judgement?


Not during the Third Age, no.


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Old Post Nov 22nd, 2018 11:41 AM
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Jmanghan
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Not during the Third Age, no.
I think Eonwe was undoubtedly above Sauron in every way barring magical abilities. You put a sword in that dude's hand and he is wrecking shop on everything, but since they couldn't challenge Sauron, he could just kill the ring-wraiths and shit.

This is a dude thats the best with weapons at any point in time, above Feanor, Fingolfin, or even Morgoth, in terms of PURE Weapons fighting.


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2018 01:11 AM
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heartfire
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Eonwe was very much more powerful than Gandalf and would have quickly overcome Sauron's armed forces. The point of the LORT setting though, is that Eonwe isn't there and Gandalf and Saruman are - Gandalf and Saruman were much lesser beings in origin than Sauron was on origin.

Old Post Nov 23rd, 2018 09:42 AM
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Jmanghan
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by heartfire
Eonwe was very much more powerful than Gandalf and would have quickly overcome Sauron's armed forces. The point of the LORT setting though, is that Eonwe isn't there and Gandalf and Saruman are - Gandalf and Saruman were much lesser beings in origin than Sauron was on origin.
I dunno what really happened with Eonwe and why he didn't end up going instead of Gandalf.

Of all the Maia, they get the 2 weakest.


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2018 02:42 PM
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ares834
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No clue where the idea that Gandalf is the second weakest Maia comes from. It's certainly not true.

Regardless, the whole point of the Istari was that they weren't supposed to use their power and fight, rather they were supposed to guide. Eonwe wouldn't have done nearly as good of a job as Gandalf who is stated to be the wisest of the Maiar.

Old Post Nov 23rd, 2018 03:23 PM
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Stealth Moose
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
No clue where the idea that Gandalf is the second weakest Maia comes from. It's certainly not true.

Regardless, the whole point of the Istari was that they weren't supposed to use their power and fight, rather they were supposed to guide. Eonwe wouldn't have done nearly as good of a job as Gandalf who is stated to be the wisest of the Maiar.


^ Gandalf was understated but strong. He also had a Ring of Power.


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Old Post Nov 24th, 2018 04:10 AM
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Jmanghan
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
No clue where the idea that Gandalf is the second weakest Maia comes from. It's certainly not true.

Regardless, the whole point of the Istari was that they weren't supposed to use their power and fight, rather they were supposed to guide. Eonwe wouldn't have done nearly as good of a job as Gandalf who is stated to be the wisest of the Maiar.
He didn't need to be wise cause he coulda just killed everything and thrown Sauron around like a f*cking ragdoll if given the chance.

Eonwe's just on another level, he could be a bonafide Valar, but alas he was stuck being Manwe's Herald.


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Old Post Nov 28th, 2018 03:21 AM
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ares834
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Uh, you sorta missed my whole point. The Istari weren't allowed to use their full power against Sauron or to directly confront him. Whether Eonwe could defeat Sauron and his entire army is irrelevant as, if he was sent instead of Gandalf, he wouldn't be allowed to do so by the Valar. Instead, he would be forced to guide the free peoples and he wouldn't be nearly as adept at that as Gandalf.

And I have no clue where you come to the conclusion that Eonwe could have been a Valar. He is the greatest weapon master, sure, but that does't mean he is the most powerful Maiar let alone on par with any of the Valar (which we know for a fact isn't true as the Valar are directly stated to be the most powerful Ainur.).

Old Post Nov 28th, 2018 06:49 AM
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Jmanghan
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Uh, you sorta missed my whole point. The Istari weren't allowed to use their full power against Sauron or to directly confront him. Whether Eonwe could defeat Sauron and his entire army is irrelevant as, if he was sent instead of Gandalf, he wouldn't be allowed to do so by the Valar. Instead, he would be forced to guide the free peoples and he wouldn't be nearly as adept at that as Gandalf.

And I have no clue where you come to the conclusion that Eonwe could have been a Valar. He is the greatest weapon master, sure, but that does't mean he is the most powerful Maiar let alone on par with any of the Valar (which we know for a fact isn't true as the Valar are directly stated to be the most powerful Ainur.).
It means he could beat anyone, Maia, Elf, Human, Valar, in a weapons' duel.

That includes people like Feanor, Fingolfin, Morgoth, Sauron, even his brother Manwe.

You can't tell me you expect Sauron to threaten someone like Feanor in combat, and considering Feanor is known most for his martial ability, and Eonwe is above even that, he is EASILY the most powerful Maia.

Sure it's ABC Logic, but its pretty clear-cut when it says "he is the best might in arms".

It means he is the best fighter with weapons, ever, no one who has ever lived had surpassed him, he is the best of the best only if we consider he has a blade in hand. Even if you consider that its only talking about people that are alive AT THE TIME, that still includes all the Valar, Maiar, and anyone else alive at the time, which naturally includes the all-powerful Morgoth.

I'm sure Feanor would have a small struggle with Sauron, but I'm pretty sure Eonwe would defeat him, considering that is both of their biggest strengths, martial combat, and Eonwe is outright stated to be superior to not only him, but everyone.

Eonwe was also usually the one that was sent to deal with most threats and when he led the forces at one point, he pushed Morgoth back, IIRC, thats a big IIRC because I haven't read the Silmarillion in years.

Either way, you're right, it's not about Eonwe being the strongest, sure they can't use their full power, but Eonwe would make pretty damn quick work of the Witch-King and Saruman if put on the opposite side. My point is, if Saruman and the Witch-King try to push their luck against that particular no-nonsense Maia, they will find themselves in a world of trouble.

Furthermore, enlighten me on who you think are the weakest Maiar are, if not Saruman and Olorin.


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Old Post Nov 29th, 2018 07:06 AM
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ares834
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Ok. That's not relevant to what I said but ok. Just because Eonwe is the greatest warrior doesn't mean he could have been a Valar. And no, Eonwe never fought Morgoth.

As for weaker Maiar, any of the other Istari will obviously be weaker. Not to mention many of the other nameless Maiar will likely be weaker as well.

Old Post Nov 29th, 2018 12:18 PM
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Prof. T.C McAbe
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Eonwe was the best Fighter among the Ainur but he was surely not the most powerful among them, nor the Maiar imo. It's like comparing a knight to a wizard, who is more powerful? H2H easily the Knight, all out, might be the Wizard, depends on the equipment of the Knight (or Paladin if you wish).

Eonwe was the best weapon fighter but I think Sauron with the one ring was overall more powerful and would best him in the end. Without the Ring I would think that Eonwe would be above Sauron, though with all the forces Sauron had at his disposal and if he prepped, which he would if he knew that Eonwe is coming for him, I think he would have a fair shot at defeating him. Recruit some Balrogs and Dragons, the Ringwraiths and cast spells from afar.

Tulkas dragged Morgoth back for judgement btw, because Tulkas was the greatest H2H fighter, without weapons that is.

Still, as good as Eonwe was with weapons, he would be never able to defeat a Valar like Morgoth, Tulkas or OromŽ in a direct duell. It would be like Fingolfin against Morgoth, just a bit longer.

As for the thread. I think Eonwe would take the ring, go alone to the Mountain, defeat pretty much everything along the way, and shortly before throwing the ring into the lava, succumb to it's promises of power, becomning the new Dark Lord, till Saurons control over him is complete.


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Old Post Dec 29th, 2018 01:11 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
No clue where the idea that Gandalf is the second weakest Maia comes from. It's certainly not true.

Regardless, the whole point of the Istari was that they weren't supposed to use their power and fight, rather they were supposed to guide. Eonwe wouldn't have done nearly as good of a job as Gandalf who is stated to be the wisest of the Maiar.


Saruman the white was the most powerful of the istari, as a Maiar he should be fairly high in power, similar to Sauron without the Ring. Gandalf the grey was a notch below him, as Gandalf the White he was a notch above Saruman. In his Maiar form he should be Eonwes equal overall.


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Old Post Dec 29th, 2018 01:13 PM
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Jmanghan
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I don't know what goes through your mind to think that someone who'd beat Feanor and Fingolfin in a duel also wouldn't beat Sauron.

It's absolutely insane.

Sauron has lost to people before, hell Gothmog vs Sauron is debated to this day.


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Old Post Dec 29th, 2018 03:31 PM
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Prof. T.C McAbe
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jmanghan
I don't know what goes through your mind to think that someone who'd beat Feanor and Fingolfin in a duel also wouldn't beat Sauron.

It's absolutely insane.

Sauron has lost to people before, hell Gothmog vs Sauron is debated to this day.

In a Duell, like sword vs sword sure. But if Sauron is prepped and chooses his spells accodingly, with the one ring, I think he would win.


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Old Post Dec 29th, 2018 03:54 PM
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Jmanghan
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
In a Duell, like sword vs sword sure. But if Sauron is prepped and chooses his spells accodingly, with the one ring, I think he would win.
So you're saying if he has prep, has the one ring, and range, he could win?

Of course he could, even Gandalf could in that situation, but even then if Eonwe gets close to him it's over.


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Old Post Dec 29th, 2018 07:13 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jmanghan
So you're saying if he has prep, has the one ring, and range, he could win?

Of course he could, even Gandalf could in that situation, but even then if Eonwe gets close to him it's over.


Most likely he would win. Without the Ring before weakened, maybe.

I doubt Gandalf the White could, however, Gandalf in his Maiar form, maybe.


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Old Post Dec 30th, 2018 01:18 PM
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