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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode I, II & III » The TRUE tragedy of Darth Vader


The TRUE tragedy of Darth Vader
Started by: queeq

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Lord Lucien
FU

Registered: Jul 2005
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lightning_Count
If you add all these things up, know one should really have to explain anything further.
"know one?"

And you called us stupid.

"It's amazing how stupid people can be on such obvious shit!"

Please, give me a break you hypocrite.


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Last edited by Lord Lucien on Dec 29th, 2005 at 03:48 AM

Old Post Dec 29th, 2005 03:46 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lightning_Count
This has got to go down as one of the stupidest topics ever to discuss!

It's really quite simple, no really, it is......read and learn:

Anakin, healthy young jedi constantly improving skill and power = PT
Vader, 95% robot, 7ft giant made of iron = OT
Obiwan kenobi, jedi master approaching middle age = PT
OLD BEN, sluggish, aged and out of serious practice = OT

The Republic and Jedi in there 1000's (e.g. Golden F?%king Age) = PT
The Empire and few surviving Jedi (in hiding e.g. not showing off their powers and fancy skills) = OT

If you add all these things up, know one should really have to explain anything further.

In the PT, obiwan was peaking, and anakin was awesome and could've gotten better but we all know what happens to him.

In the OT, Vader is a mechanical monster but has lost serious amounts of agility and power, due to him having lost more than half his body and being fitted with all those metallic extras.
Obiwan on the other hand is simply quote "getting to old for this sort of thing", and quote "your powers are weak old man"

And if all that isn't enough, people in previous posts have mentioned.......both trilogy's were made in different F?%king decades with these annoying little things called "LIMITATIONS".....why do you think kung foo movies and sword fighting look a hundred times better in movies today than they did 20 years ago.

The Fact is, Obiwan and Vader in the OT look and fight the way they due due to all the above mentioned.

It's really amazing how stupid people can be on such obvious Sh?t!!



I can understand what you're saying (the name calling excluded which is totally unnecessary). But your points are exactly what disappoints me now:

1. I see Dooku in the PT, at least as old as (if not older than) OB1 and yet: very fast and agile.
2. I see Grievous in the PT, more machine than Vader and yet: fast, speedy, nimble..
3. Yes there are decades aparts, yet they are one story. You're not going to film the book Scarlett with Rhett and Scarlet driving around in fast ferrari's and visiting house parties, just because GWTW and Scarlett are some 60 years apart. They still play in the same story era and that era has rules. The same should go for SW. Technoligy has advanced... we know that b(Luke's hand compared to Anakin's for instance) but not that much. Vader should have at least have some slightly technically advanced armour by the time of the OT, yet he does not...


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Old Post Dec 29th, 2005 08:47 AM
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sithsaber408
Intelligently Designed

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Impacting nations and generations


 

Dooku was coming up.

He had the darkside, wich was gaining in power in the PT, and the psycological ambitions of becoming the next emporer.

Obi is a whipped old dog. His friends all died. His brother/student is the reason. He failed. and Until Luke becomes strong, the light side isn't really coming to anybody's aide. Namely his. Plus, I still think his duel with vader in ep4 was about distraction for luke's escape, and to get "closure" on what happened with anakin.

Sorry for all the psycho-babble. big grin


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Old Post Dec 29th, 2005 06:25 PM
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sithsaber408
Intelligently Designed

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Impacting nations and generations


 

oh, and grievous is almost 80% robot, like his bodyguards, but with a brain, eyes,and guts. So he really is just the best fighting droid ever made, and as such, should be expected to be agile, nimble, quick,etc....

Vader is half a man, all chopped up and pieced together, whose artificial life supports, anger, and a cool sense of self-hatred keep him going.
When you take that into consideration, his raw power and fighting moves, (especially in ESB) are friggin AWESOME.

As for the difference in the look of the movies with the advances of technology..... Hmm. Don't have any good answer for that.

(sithsabers mouth goes dry as a popcorn fart) laughing out loud


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Old Post Dec 29th, 2005 06:30 PM
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kalsemo
Senior Member

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Texas


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Council#13
uh oh another moderator in the star wars section!


And your point is??


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Old Post Dec 29th, 2005 07:04 PM
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sithsaber408
Intelligently Designed

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Impacting nations and generations


 

Queeq: " I see Dooku in the PT, at least as old as (if not older than) OB1 and yet: very fast and agile."


Oh, and another thought, having the darkside with him, which by all accounts, helps prolong life and energy, may have helped.

Whilst Obi-wan had the lightside, and knew that he would survive in a far greater way by joining the force didnt really try to do more than keep vader engaged in that fight,(untill spotting Luke)

Maybe?


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Old Post Dec 30th, 2005 10:16 PM
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reborn_213
Scruffy Nerf Herder

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Picking up some power converters.


 

The Drakside is actually supposed to eat your body away, right? Like it did to DE Sidious.


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2005 01:11 AM
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sithsaber408
Intelligently Designed

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Impacting nations and generations


 

uh noo... mace windu did that to him.

The darkside kept him alive for (I'm presuming) several hundred years to implement his plans.


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2005 01:53 AM
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darthvader_fan
Dazed and Confused

Registered: Apr 2005
Location: in a galaxay, far far away


 

it wasnt just the suit that kept vader alive

Palpatines knowledge of the Dark Side did just as much


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2005 02:50 AM
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ESB -1138
Piano Man

Registered: Jun 2005
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We never seen OT Vader actually fight anyone. When he battled Ben in ANH Ben allowed Vader to kill himself and most of the time they were talking. Vader wan't trying to kill Luke in ESB just capture him for the Emperor. And Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke in ROTJ or else he would have done so when they were alone before boarding the shuttle.


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2005 03:39 AM
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overlord
OD'd

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: The internet


 

Yeah, just because the movies don't portray Lucas' original intention as good as they could have done now doesn't mean Vader and Obi Wan are suddenly slow crippled old geezers.
As if the PT shows everything intended in the basic idea of SW. If we would go with what 'seems' then we can also act like padawan Obi Wan can beat both Vader and Obi Wan from the OT.

All what seems to be the case in SW can just be discarded (including all theories regarding) as it is a movie and Lucas still can't put his personal vision and intention as perfectly imagined.

Age and (apperantly) cybernetic implants don't mean much in science fiction such as SW. Yoda and all other old guys could use the force to overcome potential limitations and it was never originally intended that people such as Grievous and Vader would actually be held back in fluently moving and lifting up arms.
You don't see those guys having trouble to pick up people for example (on the contrary!) and even Vader being less powerful was only made up later by Lucas and he only states that Vader lost force potential wich had to do with his body apperantly.
Trust me.. Vader originally just had the suit to travel through space and it was never supposed to hold him back. Even after Lucas made up that he might need the suit to survive, he still doesn't intend that Vader has trouble moving around freely.
It is freaking obvious that when we were introduced to Vader and Obi Wan, that they were the last remaining war veterans who survived for good reasons and not luck as people might have suggested later on.

And the nonsense that Vader is still a pussy compared to himself as a padawan from ROTS even though he had some twenty years to finish training and perfect his dueling skills, and that Obi Wan became worse because he forgot his lightsaber skills after all those years are just plain stupid theories wich go against all original intentions of Star Wars.


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2005 03:36 PM
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exanda kane
Senior Member

Registered: May 2005
Location: Norwich, England


 

I concur with Overlord, Queeq etc.

It's already been said why and its the truth.


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Old Post Dec 31st, 2005 03:56 PM
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Lightning_Count
Junior Member

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: United Kingdom


 

i see anakin and vader as too seperate character figures, so the tragedy of anakin doesn't make me feel vader is a pussy in any way. He's still that menacing bastard in the black suit that he's always been....and up untill he finds luke, he's just "Evil".

Old Post Jan 1st, 2006 05:59 PM
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darthvader_fan
Dazed and Confused

Registered: Apr 2005
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shadow x 20
We never seen OT Vader actually fight anyone. When he battled Ben in ANH Ben allowed Vader to kill himself and most of the time they were talking. Vader wan't trying to kill Luke in ESB just capture him for the Emperor. And Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke in ROTJ or else he would have done so when they were alone before boarding the shuttle.
you might when they make the sereis


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2006 08:00 PM
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Bicnarok
From Ganymede

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Cydonia, Mars


 

you donīt have to be a mega supermann to be an excellent villiant. palpatine got most success through evil cunning rather than fighting.

Darth vader is still the ultimate "main man" for me, his background story fits the picture perfectly, a confused mislead powerhouse. Who lost everything and know where to go, until his son was getting zapped.

vader Rules 4 ever

Old Post Jan 1st, 2006 11:31 PM
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ESB -1138
Piano Man

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Jacksonville, Florida


 

Everyone loved Palp in ROTJ even though we never seen him fight.


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2006 02:11 AM
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lukeskyrunner
Junior Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Ottawa


 

Yeah, and another thing proving teh suit doesn't hold him back is that Anakin could duel just fine (even better than when he had a real hand), so the mechanical arm in episode 2-3 obviously didn't hold him back, so i don't see why his other limbs would have either. So he obviously picked up a different style of dueling... GEEZ

Old Post Feb 1st, 2006 02:39 PM
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Lord Lucien
FU

Registered: Jul 2005
Location:


 

Actually his mechanical limbs DID hold him back, as did his entire body.


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Old Post Feb 2nd, 2006 03:41 AM
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lukeskyrunner
Junior Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Ottawa


 

oh ok, i didnt know that, so iunno then

Old Post Feb 2nd, 2006 04:20 AM
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Darth Callous
Mitsu Racer Honda Hater

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: AGU, Tokyo


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by sithsaber408
The prequels, while flawed, are still worthy additions to the fine saga that had ewoks, funky slugs, wolves and devils in bars, and "scruffy-looking nerf herders" as plot devices.


.....or blue elephants playing piano, for that matter......

Old Post Feb 2nd, 2006 06:00 AM
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