Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
Re: So...what has Freedon Nadd done?
Well for starters, as a ghost he was able to collapse a wall on Exar Kun and crush his entire body while blocking Vodo from helping and even giving the Jedi Master a Force-backlash. He then heals Exar Kun's body, mending painfully every broken bone or torn muscle in a manner similar to Sion's rebuilding (Only far more complete) and orders the former Jedi around until the amulet incident where Nadd got his ass owned.
Nadd is likely inferior to earlier Sith lords since he takes direct orders from their spirits, and Kun outstripped him so it's safe to say he's inferior to Kun. However, he is no slouch either. His tomb where they kept his rotten body was a vector for the Dark Side; hell, you had to watch where you stepped or else you tripped in it.
'While' implies simultaneous action, which is untrue.
Even the comic proves this statement error-ridden: Nadd's is
A. On Korriban, increasing his powers a significant amount than usual, even in spirit form, able to lash out on Vodo
B. He does nothing more than 'trigger the release' of the energies in the cave...which, incidentally, causes the rather fragile little construct to react poorly, causing the cave in
In other words, Janus? Freedon did nothing more than throw a match on a lit fuse
No, he doesn't. Nadd does NOTHING to heal Kun. Kun's complete acceptance of the Dark Side knits his bones and heals him. It's Exar's acceptance of the Dark Side that heals him.
Two for two down here
Which, considering the massive Sith Rituals performed in over 400 years since his death by his descendants, many of whom were powerful Sith magicians with access to Nadd's personal store? Not a surprise.
That's two 'ghost feats' of Nadd that are heavily aggrandized, by the by.
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
Let's take a look at the source material again, LS:
Basically, it takes "little effort" for Freedon Nadd to shatter a "great" crystal which imprisoned Jedi spirits and unleash those energies into the cavern in a collapse which shatters Kun's entire body. He breaks a crystal meant to entrap many Jedi spirits with little effort, LS. He doesn't push a red button or shove a rock across a room with extreme effort.
And yes, the effort is not simultaneous to his attack on Vodo (You were correct, I mistyped), but all the same the initial action was effortless for a midi-chlorian-less spirit.
Once he crushes Kun with little effort, he then taunts Vodo before assaulting him across the galaxy using the Force:
Vodo is absolutely helpless.
Next, he forces Kun to accept the Dark Side and heals him. You claim that Kun accepted the Dark Side and this act healed him (Which is not only a breach of Occam's Razor; it's entirely unprecedented in the series), but we can clearly see that Nadd is in control of the situation. As he tells Vodo, his power is on Kun. He controls his life at this point:
Furthermore, he's were Nadd confirmed that the spirits of the ancient Sith somehow reflects their power in life as they have to use this power to "preserve" their spirits.
Common sense dictates that a body without midi-chlorians is at a disadvantage compared to a living body; that only the level of remaining power in the spirit is what can make it better than a living Force user. Nadd was more powerful than Kun who was alive until the amulet turned things in his favor. He was also able to effortlessly kill Ommin using the Force, the same King Ommin who floored Arca Jeth with a single attack (Though to Ulic's credit, Ulic was capable of withstanding the same attack.)
There's never any indication that this is true. While it would make sense that being on Korriban would benefit Nadd, the extent to which it does is impossible to determine. Rather than chalk all credit up to Korriban's influence, it is better to conclude that Nadd's personal power is still considerable, as no other Sith spirit is shown attacking Jedi Masters across the galaxy, snuffing out powerful Force users, nor healing former Jedi completely.
To 'trigger the release' of energies? That happen to shatter the cave and destroy the crystal? Again, throwing a match on a fuse. Not a single source ever says Freedon Nadd himself is the one with enough power to stop that, Janus.
Note that: It is a matter of little effort to trigger the release of the force. This is a great feat of power? Reaching out and altering the energies of delicate alchemical constructions? This is gross misinterpretation. BUt in fairness, do find me a source that points to Nadd's own power causing the explosion. Not the energies he released.
On Korriban, able to draw power from there again, might I remind you.
If by 'little effort' you mean 'sits back and allows the boulders to crush him', then yes
Yeah, I'm really sure he expected to find Freedon Nadd's spirit hovering over his fallen apprentice on the world that's second to Lehon in power of 'Dark Side Nexus'. Yeah, I really see him able to pull this on Luke, or Yoda, or even Odan. Does Vodo even know 'Force Light?' It's a technique for dealing with Dark Side ghosts, recall.
No, it isn't. To my recollection, the Dark Side Sourcebook and the Essential guide to Characters claim the Dark Side itself heals Kun when he full accepts it.
And you'll notice the circumstances are remarkably unique
Through manipulations, nothing more.
Yes, I'm aware of the matter. However, that their spirits were preserved by their power means....precisely what? I'm not getting the conclusion you're trying to draw.
Nadd was more powerful than a gifted Padawan? You'll notice that isn't filling me with admiration for him.
Oh, and this the 'same King Ommin' who just had his life support destroyed and couldn't even move a finger? Nadd said it himself: Ommin belonged to the Dark Side-Nadd simply claimed the dying king's soul
If it weren't for the matter only one of those is completely true, then I'd be far more likely to believe it.
Nadd was a DLOTs, meaning his power was considerable. Would he stand against someone like Luke, Yoda, Palpatine or Revan? Somehow, I doubt it.
Again: considering Force Light is pretty damn useful for dealing with a Dark Side ghost...if Nadd even came into contact with Thon, he'd have found himself driven back with his tail between his legs (and Thon's been stated to know the power, hence his ability to cleanse Arkania)
And also? Considering we know Korriban does present quite a boost to the powers of Dark Siders, as well as its huge Dark Side aura, we can certainly conclude it's what allowed Nadd to lash out whatsoever-considering it's stated directly in the Freedon Nadd Uprising he's powerless in his present state.
Is Nadd a powerful SIth Lord? Undoubtedly. Can he hang with upper tiers like Luke, Palpatine, Yoda, Marka, DLOTS Exar, etc? Almost assuredly not. His knowledge in the Dark Side was lacking,, considering he failed to truly complete his educations in either the Jedi or Sith schools, a planet accepted him as their ruler based on the assumption of him being a God...
Curiously enough, his only impressive feats really occur after he's dead, on Korriban. Given what else we know, this doesn't seem like a coincidence
Btw, Janus, think you'll sign on MSN sometimes? I'm having one of my rare breaks today
__________________ Thanks to Venificus:
Last edited by Lightsnake on Sep 13th, 2007 at 08:27 PM
I have a problem with certain plot holes. For starters, how can there be a crystal holding jedi exiles? If I recall correctly, the only "jedi" that were on korriban were the original dark Jedi who came there. After that, there were no Jedi on korriban until the ancient sith were long gone. This is yet another inconsistency.
What JEdi lightsnake? When did Jedi go to Korriban? I recall the second battle of Korriban or something that effectively wiped out the sith, but I don't remember anything about Jedi going over there. Furthermore, what "ancient sith" at this time could actually contend with a Jedi (judging by GAOTS). Those sith were pretty much useless. And if what you say is true, these weak sith were apparently not as weak as we suspect, especially if they can trap Jedi into crystals..
Really? Him saying Yoda, Luke, etc. could 'almost assuredly' beat Nadd is a FACT?
Wow, let me ask him all my SW unanswered questions since his word his canon.
The words almost assuredly and fact don't go together. It's just funny on this board that people will type and type paragraphs of facts then sneak their own opinion in like its one and the same with the facts. I'm just being subjective here. Stop being wimps.
Yeah, unlike your word, who's only purpose is to be an ignorant ass who questions another person's post that is based on facts(He even listed where he got his info from) yet don't bother to even make a counter argument against him, just insults.
Oohoo! What a big man you are![/sarcasm]
I'd suggest that, yes, considering he has just about every new SW sourcebook(Which ARE canon, and are exactly what he's basing his argument on).
I don't know why he used almost, considering that Yoda and Luke are have shown repeatedly that they're leagues above what Nadd has done. Wimps? Considering you keep acting like a dick and saying that he's incorrect in his assessment(Which, again, is based off of facts), yet you don't have the balls to type one out to counter his and hide behind petty, ill-thought insults, I'd pretty much say that makes you the wimp, n00b.