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mrMallorca
Junior Member
Gender:
Location: Sweden |
 How is this history possible?
I've seen T1 and T2 I don't know how many times but I seem to miss something. I haven't seen T3 yet, but from what I've heard the quiestion I'm about to ask here cannot be answered from T3 ... I hope someone can explain this to me ... here we go ...
From what I have studied from physics and stuff the present always occurs before the future, right? So how can the future wars depend on the unfortunate accident of the T-101 in the T1 movie? I mean, the future depens on tha investigation of the chip and arm left behind by the T-101, right? So, if the Skynet super computer depends on 2 single parts from the future for it to be ever made and then to destroy mankind ... how can this history even work? Have I missed something?
The supercomputer is constructed thanks to the studie of those two parts by that black dude. So ... how can this black dude build a future (or destroy it hehe) thanks to 2 parts from this very same future?
If another future that didn't depend on those 2 parts sent back the T-101 then it's ok, but now the future from when they send back the T-101 depends on that this very same T-101 gets squeshed and leaves the arm and that chip ...
Can someone help me out here? I have it hard to belive that the Terminator series depends on this little technicalaty ...
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Aug 11th, 2003 12:45 PM |
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jinXed by JaNx
Senior Member
 Gender: Male
Location: Pittsburgh |
In the comic books man developed skynet and after the first machine came back and left the chip behind it changed the way skynet was developed and just sped the process and resulted in more advanced machines in the future because they already had a bases to build from which explained the t-1000, and connor had to send back another machine to originally search out and destroy the chips but also was programmed with the objective to keep connor safe in the past incase skynet got wind and sent a terminator back, and skynet did because at first the resistance was near destryong skynet but after the arm and head chip was left behind and modern day man was able to create a more threatning machines which led to even more advances in the machines technology in the future which the resistance could not cobat, so skynet sent a machine to kill connor as a child this time not because he was a threat as a resistance leader because he wasnt, for the machines were near winning after having more adnvaces, but instead to kill connor as a child so he would never be able to send a machine back to destroy the chip and arm from ever existing............I know it wasnt this way in the movie but it did in the comics and when you introduce pysics into fiction your usually screwed
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Aug 11th, 2003 01:16 PM |
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mrMallorca
Junior Member
Gender:
Location: Sweden |
So you mean that this is the same timeline? Everything was still going to happen but on the first turn arround the black dude developed everything without the arm and chip ... the super computer got it self agknowligment and started the war ... the machines are neraly loosing and send back the T-101 to kill Sara from the year 2029 I think it was ... unluckely for the resistance the destroyed terminator T-101 left behind an arm and chip that speeds up the development, the super computer is buildt even earlier and the machines that send back the first T-101 get even more advanced and start to win the war ... is that it?
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Aug 11th, 2003 01:36 PM |
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jinXed by JaNx
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: Pittsburgh |
yeah pretty much, i mean this is all from the comics ive read, the first time around dawson or disen what ever the black dudes name is only partially participated in the creation of skynet. and yeah finding the arm and chip just sped the process up and gave the machines more advanced technology, But connor did suceed in his attempt to get the arm and chip destroyed, but in the process alot of knowledge he learned was erased from his memory and they still almost loose the battle, i know this has nothing to do with what you wanted to know i just think the comics have better story than the movie but cameron did a good job i mean theres gonns be holes here and there in any movie and that one was a big one seeing how they never covered or talked about it in any of the movies
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Aug 11th, 2003 02:35 PM |
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alic88
Barzakh
 Gender: Male
Location: Pakistan |
bottom line: c terminator3. it is sure a good movie( now dont start saying stuff, just let him c it and then lets c what he says)
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Chughtai
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Aug 11th, 2003 05:00 PM |
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jinXed by JaNx
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: Pittsburgh |
yeah mallorca go see it tell me what you think, i hated it but tell me what you think after you see it
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Aug 11th, 2003 05:29 PM |
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mrMallorca
Junior Member
Gender:
Location: Sweden |
I am so gonna see it ... jsut didn't know about this part ... jsut knew that I had to miss something in my theory. The people that did the Terminator movies just couldn't be that dumb ...
But T3 ... hell yeah I'm gonna see ... I'll keep you posted ...
Thank you ... and finally I got a logical answer to my question!!!
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Aug 11th, 2003 05:55 PM |
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jinXed by JaNx
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: Pittsburgh |
yeah im sure the writers just felt there were some things that diddnt need to be given devoted scree time
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Aug 11th, 2003 06:12 PM |
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mrMallorca
Junior Member
Gender:
Location: Sweden |
Shit (pardon my French), I just told this to my borther (another big fan of the Teminator series) and as was saying it out loud I heard myself saying something I didn’t understand ... in the story or the comics I found another little flaw. Here again the future must happen before the present. The reason that the machines had to send back the first terminator was to kill Sarah Connor so that she wouldn't have John, right? The future John sends back his father to protect his mommy, right? So ... from my point of viewing this I have to paradoxes …
1: How can a future John send back his dad so that he himself will exist? Once again, you cannot build a future with parts from the future … right?
2: From what I have understood from ragesRemorse explanation from the comics is that the first movie T1 really starts on the second turn around of the timeline … if I can put it this way …
First turn of the timeline : Cyberdine Systems, or what ever they are called, develops and construct the super computer Skynet without the famous arm and chip. Skynet goes hey wire and starts that thermonuclear war. 2029 the machines are loosing to the resistance and send back Arnie to kill Sarah Connor so that she will never have John (presumable the leader of the resistance … ??? ) … Sarah hasn’t meet the father yet … is she the Virgin Maria now?! Where did John come from?
Second turn of the timeline : Here is where everything starts, the first movie, T1 … at the year 2029 Arnie goes back in time to 1984, and John that really hasn’t been born yet sends back his dad … ??? … The future must happen before the present? Arnie isn’t successful but leaves behind half an arm and a chip. Cyberdine develops the Skynet thanks to these parts more powerful and more quickly than the first turn around, which gives the bonus as you might say that the machines are more powerful in the year 2029 … and of course the rest we all know.
So … how can John that wasn’t born on the first turn, send back his dad to protect his mom Sarah?
Sorry to be a pain … but I really like this movie and I hate movies with these kinds of mistakes, just as much as seeing a microphone hanging over the heads of the actors hahaha. Hope there is an explanation for this to hehehe sorry lads …
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Aug 11th, 2003 06:57 PM |
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bad banana
Member
 Gender: Male
Location: Maryland, USA |
People have been speculating on these issues for nearly twenty years now. It's not necesarily a mistake - it's present in every single time travel story because of the built-in paradox that comes with the genre. How did Marty McFly in Back to the Future gets his parents together so they would eventually marry before he was born? It's the same principle: you're not supposed to sit there and agonize about it too much, you'll just get a headache.
Try to think of it as separate timelines:
The original timeline, I suppose, would've been that Sarah gets impregnated by another man unknown to us, thus eventually giving birth to John, who then sends back Kyle Reese to protect her in the year 2029. A tidbit of trivia for you; try and recall the events leading up to why Sarah Connor ended up at TechNoir (the nightclub) in the first Terminator.
a) A man left a message on her answering machine apologizing that they couldn't go on their date tonight, and that he'd call her in a day or two.
b) This indicates that Sarah was probably either seeing him or beginning the stages of romance with the man, so from the original timeline when Arnold isn't sent back he might've even been the anonymous father of John.
So let's say this happens; Sarah gives birth to John and he becomes a great military leader. The humans have nearly won the war when Skynet fights dirty and sends the terminator back through time to 1984, before John was even born. Therefore this creates a rupture in the spectrum and ultimately a new timeline: before Sarah has a chance to meet any men the machine is after her, and Reese swoops in to protect and eventually sleep with her. He becomes John's father, and things go from there.
It sort of plays with the main underlying theme of the movie that "there is no fate but what we make."
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Aug 11th, 2003 07:48 PM |
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jinXed by JaNx
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: Pittsburgh |
yeah Mallorca ive asked the same question for some time. Because its an impossibility for reese to be johns original father. Reese could not have been there on the original time around because he's from the future. People ive spoken to just say oh well sarah does get pregnant in 1984 just by some other guy and then when john sent reese back she got pregnant with him instead. That made sense for about a minute untill i used my brain, because if john had two seperate fathers on two different timeles he would be two different people who end up becomming the same man and having the same future. whic i guess goes back to fate like the NO fate but what we make kind of thing. I have enver found a clear answer on that question, i mean in the comic that was based around that story it was john himself who came back to protect his mom and dude could you imagine being your own dad thats just a brain anneurism waiting to happen
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Aug 11th, 2003 09:15 PM |
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Ambarturion
Member
Gender:
Location: United Kingdom |
Those two creation paradoxes are are headache material alright. They`re only explainable with the multiple timeline theory. Where as soon as they arrive in the past they create an alternate timeline.
It would have been interesting to see how things happened in the original timeline. Seeing as how John doesn`t seem to change a great deal from the changes, he must take a lot more of his makeup from his mother than his father.
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Aug 11th, 2003 10:09 PM |
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Ambarturion
Member
Gender:
Location: United Kingdom |
Now that I think about it, there`s some more messing about that`s happened.
If we take for granted that each traveller from the future has altered the future and created a new timeline there are about 4 versions of John (from the change of events in all three films i.e. John`s father changing, Cyberdyne being blown up).
But.. Seeing as Judgement Day`s date has moved back and forward. The odds of Kyle Reese`s parents being the same two survivors of a war that happens at at least three different dates (the unknown original date, 1997 and 2003) are extremely unlikely. So we have about three different versions of Kyle Reese as well... It`s enough to make a perfectly sane person crazy.
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Aug 11th, 2003 10:23 PM |
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mrMallorca
Junior Member
Gender:
Location: Sweden |
What came first ... the comics or the movie? Because this stupid thing about two different dads ... well I can just see a whole lot of doctors laughing their pants of hehehehe In the movies why didn't they send back Johnny boy? Why didn't they make more of a Back to the future but this time John doesn't get in they way of the ****i ****i ...
Well speculations ...
Another thing, those theories about different timelines ... I just can accept them that easy. I mean if you go back in time, creating this alternate timeline and change stuff, well the original timeline won't exist anymore, right? More physics of course ... until we build a real timemachine we won't no diddley squad, will we?
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Aug 12th, 2003 06:28 AM |
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jinXed by JaNx
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: Pittsburgh |
there was a terminator series before the movie it was only a four issiue series and cameron elborated a great deal on it
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Aug 12th, 2003 10:16 AM |
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mrMallorca
Junior Member
Gender:
Location: Sweden |
aaaaaaaaaaaah oki ... well anyway ... still having problem with the whole sending the father back before you are even born thing ...
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Aug 12th, 2003 05:24 PM |
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bad banana
Member
Gender: Male
Location: Maryland, USA |
It's a time travel paradox. Stop stressing about it so much, you'll get a hernia. You're not supposed to get it, because it's impossible.
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Aug 12th, 2003 06:20 PM |
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jinXed by JaNx
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: Pittsburgh |
yeah i already got a hernia from it, i sat there thinking about some of the terminator faults and tried to figure out hawkins basic theory on pyhsics and i all i know is that an hour after contemplating all that the left side of my body diddnt work, until i traveled back in time and slapped myself in the head to stop thinking to hard about it
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Aug 12th, 2003 07:03 PM |
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DeNiro
Senior Member
 Gender: Male
Location: |
i would probly par take in this discussion but u guys just r writing way to much to read u must really know ur terminator movies nice work
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Aug 12th, 2003 08:41 PM |
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Ambarturion
Member
Gender:
Location: United Kingdom |
On the timelines, I think the timelines are like train tracks.
If you make changes it doesnt eradicate the original timeline, you`ve just switched to another track, while the original goes on in some other reality. (or maybe it doesnt! it is just a theory.)
It makes more sense than a single timeline theory. With one timeline the paradoxes are pretty hard to explain.
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Aug 12th, 2003 11:20 PM |
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