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False Premise in the Matrix
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LeSocial
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Location: Seattle

False Premise in the Matrix

The whole premise of the Matrix is based upon the fact that the humans "scorched the sky" making it impossible for the machines to use solar power. Wouldn't this subside after a few years, making solar power available again? And what about launching solar collectors above the earth's atmosphere?


I've thought of some reasons why they might keep using the Matrix but they still don't convince me.

1) Once the infrastructure is in place, humans provide a greater energy return on the investment than solar power.

2) Machines don't have the raw materials to build a solar collection infrastructure on the scale required by their energy consumption. Thus they are tied to the human matrix they developed.

Any thoughts?

Old Post Jun 1st, 2003 10:02 PM
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Ushgarak
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It is a basic set-up of the plot that the sky is buggered and there is no light. Therefore one must accept that whatever the humans did is irreversible.


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Old Post Jun 1st, 2003 10:12 PM
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LeSocial
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But its places like these that we can sit back and try to find holes in the plot.

What could the humans have done to prevent the sunlight from returning for, at the very least, 100 + years?

The only thing I could think of is nuclear winter. But eventually the rain would remove the impurities from the air. Unless....

Insert reply here.


Any scientists/geologists in the room?

Old Post Jun 2nd, 2003 01:21 AM
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Ushgarak
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Who cares? The whole idea of turning humans into batteries makes no scientific sense either. It is just part of the set-up.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

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Old Post Jun 2nd, 2003 02:30 AM
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turin
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well if the machines all adapted to human power then why would they want to have to go through the whole thing again to adapt back to solar power. why mess with a working system i guess is what i am trying to say.


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and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.

Old Post Jun 2nd, 2003 03:35 AM
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LeSocial
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Because with solar power the machines wouldn't have to deal with the instability of the Matrix.

Old Post Jun 2nd, 2003 06:07 AM
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mirthrandir63
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The machines keep using the matrix because it makes for an interesting movie. Who would make a movie about machines that send solar collectors in the sky for energy?

On a more imaginative note, the humans could very well have detonated a bunch of nukes in the atmosphere, depleting the ozone layer and creating a thick shroud of dust and other small particles that would blot out the sun.

Think back to the dinosaurs:
Big Speeding Comet + TARGET: Earth = Big explosion + thick shroud of dust that lasted millions of years. Replace comet with nukes and the answer works fine.

I'll have to check my strategy guide for Enter the Matrix, I'm pretty sure they give an explanation on how the humans blotted out the sun.

As for why the machines just didn't kill off the humans and send out solar collectors or other stuff like that, it could be that since they were planning to exterminate the humans, they might as well use them for something. Who knows, maybe machines recycle.


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Old Post Jun 3rd, 2003 06:35 PM
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Ushgarak
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Latsed millions of years? Don;t be silly.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Jun 3rd, 2003 06:36 PM
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LeSocial
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In a nuclear winter the dust particles in the air would be naturally removed by rain over no longer a time than maybe a decade. If you disrupt the cycle of water somehow - like lowering the atmospheric temp to point where all the surface water is encased in ice - then you might eliminate the mechanism for removing dust from the air.

I'd like to hear the official Matrix explanation for it.

Old Post Jun 3rd, 2003 08:09 PM
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BEST TRINITY
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Maybe the water doesnt work. Maybe is toxic rain.

Old Post Jun 3rd, 2003 08:21 PM
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turin
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well there isnt any instability in the matrix that hadnt been accounted for and dealt with. the Flaw in the equation, "the one", had controls put on it to dictate what it did. sounds pretty controled, the only problem is that the architect always accounted for the variable in the equation, until the one true one went against the controls. i hope it dont sound like i am rambling.


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and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.

Old Post Jun 3rd, 2003 10:52 PM
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Baked Alaska
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The premise is flawed in an even more fundamental way. If the sun no longer shines, it will kill all the plants, which will eventually kill every animal that feeds on plants or other animals. Feeding the liquified remains of dead humans to the live ones will only sustain the "eco-system" for a limited time.

Old Post Nov 15th, 2003 11:46 PM
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EyeMakeMovies
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ok here: maybe the machines are keeping it "scorched" b/c it seems humans would need the sun more than machines. this is just another form of defense for the machines


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2003 03:36 AM
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Strangelove
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Possibly. My chief philosphy for movies is: Don't think too much, it makes the whole experience less fun


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2003 03:43 AM
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Agent Elrond
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Rain would remove dust particles (basic earth science), but if there is no water, then no rain. So far, I haven't seen any signs of waters. Plus, the clouds give off a large amount of electricy. It would scramble any machines' chips if they tried to launch anything up there, like solar collectors. Therefore, they would ahve to continue with the Matrix.


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2003 04:47 AM
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Vim
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i go with with Lord Soth on this one it makes the movie experience less fun when try to figure every single itty bitty tiny minute small microscopic detail!


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2003 02:37 PM
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nephalim27
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The idea of getting power from humans is proposterous on it's own. The energy that humans create that is useful to the machines comes from a chemical reaction in the body of food(glucose) + oxygen + water. The machines, being so advanced, could easily replicate this process if indeed they had the food (which they wouldn't in the first place) they would need to be feeding the humans, and replicate it much more efficiently (with much less loss of energy.)
There are so many plotholes and inconsistencies in the Matrix it's not even funny. Don't bother trying to think too hard about it, otherwise the movie(s) would suck. Enjoy it (them) for what it (they) are, philosophy + action. The Matrix 2 & 3 were far lacking in the pilosophy department, however, in any meaningful way at least.

Old Post Nov 17th, 2003 07:39 PM
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Ikobe
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Reloaded? Lacking in philosophy? You serious? Ehh. Anyway.

Again, it's all about the dictatorship factor.

AI.


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2003 07:43 PM
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sandman
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iut's inefficent to have go back to solar power.
1 their enemies are imprisioned
2. hey while we have tem not trying to destroy us anymore let's use them for power.

er.. i explained this better in another thread that asked this same question..

meh been a long day at work.. i don't fill like looking for it..
or thinking


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2003 07:53 PM
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Agent Elrond
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From taht chemical reaction, the body gives off heat. The machine gather that energy and use it to power their city. As I said before, it si impossible for the machines to gahter solar energy. Their circuts would be fried by the lightning.


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2003 08:56 PM
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