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Can the sharingan see through aizen's shikai?
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Rikudo sennin
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Can the sharingan see through aizen's shikai?

We know it can see through genjutsu and it also is supposed to give the user enhanced clarity so do you think it would be able to see through aizen's shikai?

Old Post Oct 8th, 2012 11:37 PM
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Nephthys
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Aizen's shikai has beaten attempts to see through it I believe. Shinji tried and failed.


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Old Post Oct 9th, 2012 01:05 AM
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Demonic Phoenix
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Aizen's shikai controls/affects a lot more than just the opponent's vision, so probably not.
It'd be better if the Sharingan didn't see the Shikai in the first place.


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Old Post Oct 9th, 2012 01:06 AM
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AuraAngel
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Genjutsu tends to affect more senses than just the type it's based around(example: both Tsukuyomi and the Frog Song affect the sense of touch). The Sharingan's ability to see through genjutsu seems to be determined by what sense the genjutsu is based on. They can see through sight based illusions fairly easily while sound seems to be a weak point. Aizen's Shikai affects all the senses but it primarily takes root in sight, since it is based around the opponent seeing his sword.

On the other hand, Aizen's Shikai is pretty much above all other illusions in the HST in terms of detail. With Naruto genjutsu, it's pretty obvious that you're in one. With this is mind, it's pretty likely that his Shikai is > Base Sharingan.


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Last edited by AuraAngel on Oct 9th, 2012 at 01:20 AM

Old Post Oct 9th, 2012 01:17 AM
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Q99
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Maybe? Sure, why not?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
Aizen's shikai has beaten attempts to see through it I believe. Shinji tried and failed.


Shinji didn't have any abilities to help him, though. No-one in Bleach has a sharingan like power.

And Unohana did notice something was off when examining the dummy Aizen. So it's not flawless.


quote:
AuraAngel
On the other hand, Aizen's Shikai is pretty much above all other illusions in the HST in terms of detail. With Naruto genjutsu, it's pretty obvious that you're in one.


It depends a lot on what the illusion is. It's obvious if the person does obvious things like have heads come out of them or trees hold them place, but if it's a subtle thing, it's very hard to notice.

Tsukiyomi affects even more than Aizen's shikai, going for one's sense of time as well, able to make the target feel pain, etc.. Koto can mind control someone without their knowing.


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Old Post Oct 9th, 2012 06:40 AM
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Astner
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Bleach chapter 171, page 13 of 20; and Naruto chapter 259, page 9 of 19.


While it's true that both genjutsu and Kyōka Suigetsu affect the opponents five senses there's a key difference. The way to break free from a genjutsu is to counter its means of influence, the chakra flow.

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Naruto chapter 259, page 10 of 19.


Since Kyōka Suigetsu affect the senses directly—or at the very least other means than chakra flow manipulation—stopping your chakra flow won't prevent its influence.

So no, there's no implication of that they would be able to negate it.

Old Post Oct 9th, 2012 09:08 AM
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Q99
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We aren't talking about fighting it with normal anti-genjutsu methods, though, but rather the sharingan, which doesn't use the same technique.

And, Kyōka Suigetsu uses reishi, just like all zanpakuto abilities. So it's using reishi to control senses rather than chakra, not all that different to begin with.


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Old Post Oct 9th, 2012 09:54 AM
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Astner
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Q99
We aren't talking about fighting it with normal anti-genjutsu methods, though, but rather the sharingan, which doesn't use the same technique.

The only genjutsu which isn't normally detectible is Kotoamatsukami, as undetectability is its distinguishing feature.

However, the Sharingan doesn't dispel genjutsu. In chapter 62, Sasuke is able to detect the use of genjutsu with his Sharingan, but he isn't able to dispel it.

Furthermore, no such Sharingan mechanic has been pointed out. The most plausible explanation is that the users are apt at countering genjutsu due to their familiarity with it. Jiraiya did after all—in chapter 259—explain that genjutsu is a very sophisticated use of chakra.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Q99
And, Kyōka Suigetsu uses reishi, just like all zanpakuto abilities. So it's using reishi to control senses rather than chakra, not all that different to begin with.

Reishi are spirit particles, the word you're looking for is reiatsu. Either way, the nature of chakra and reiatsu are vastly different mechanically.

Everything with a soul has reiatsu—that includes the living as well as abiotic matter—. As opposed to Naruto where chakra is generated by the shinobi, and not every shinobi is able to generate it. Rock Lee, for one, was not able to generate chakra—as explained by Ebisu in chapter 90—.

Sorry. But I have to get ready for class which starts in an hour, so I can't post direct images. But I've referenced the chapters so you should be able to find the information.

Old Post Oct 9th, 2012 10:21 AM
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Demonic Phoenix
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Astner


Furthermore, no such Sharingan mechanic has been pointed out. The most plausible explanation is that the users are apt at countering genjutsu due to their familiarity with it. Jiraiya did after all—in chapter 259—explain that genjutsu is a very sophisticated use of chakra.


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"To all visitors from Transylvania looking for the head of Voivode Dracula: Yes, we have it. Yes, he's dead. No, you cannot see it. No, he will not return and invade you again. It has been over thirty years, please stop pestering us."

Old Post Oct 10th, 2012 03:49 AM
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Astner
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Well I be damned.

Old Post Oct 10th, 2012 03:47 PM
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