We have an instance where Goku with a PL of 1000 ran snake way and it took him 170 days.
Goku repeats this process but the second time around it took him only 28 hours and he had a PL of 5000... only a small increase in power. The small difference in power make something that took Goku half a year to do only last for a couple of hrs.
With that said, what if we placed Super Saiyan Goku on snake way... how long do you think it would take him to cross it with a PL of 150 million?
Why, the speed would scale up to the c, of course!
If we assume a power level is linear in quantity and we use the 150,000,000 number for Goku, we can use that energy comparison to see how close to c Goku can get. Keep in mind that the closer to c you get, the more energy it requires. It requires an infinite amount of energy to actually reach c so an enormous amount of energy may very well get him to c. You have to use the Lorentz Factor to get the proper energy required for C.
We could calculate the energy required to both accelerate and maintain that constant speed (because the "atmosphere, which we could assume is at STP, would exert a resistance force against Goku as he flew. This constant is technically not constant as the density is varied but for the sake of simplicity, we could average that out to just STP.) So it would be an initial acceleration vector work = force * delta distance.
That plus the force required to keep the system in motion against the resistance force of the air.
Using the Lorentz factor in the 28 hour flight time is not needed and this is why: We know that Goku was able to greatly reduce the actual distance traveled to get across snake-way because he just jumped in a straight line down snakeway on his way back home. So it's not truly 621,371 miles. I did an eyeball guess with some cords I had on my desk and it looks like the snaky pattern amounts to double the length of a straight line. Goku flew, remember? He bounced and flew..but let's just assume 310,685 miles.
He flew 310,685 miles in 28 hours, right?
He did it before at a power level of 5000 (And, initially, he did the hundred+days trip at a power level of a little over 460, not 1000, like you suggested, because he died and was resurrected.)
So it would be an initial acceleration vector work = force * delta distance.
That plus the force required to keep the system in motion against the resistance force of the air. You have to use the drag formula WITH the previous formula in order to get total energy expended.
force of drag = (1/2)*density of fluid*velocity of the object in the fluid*drag coefficient (similar to a friction coefficient...it's basically the coefficient for a given object in a fluid)*orthographic projection area (this sounds complicated, but it's not. It's basically the cross-sectional area of a sphere...but for a human body, it would be a bit more than just the orthographic projection area due to the dynamics experienced by the clothes "flapping" through the fluid(atmosphere).
Anyway, what is the average velocity of Goku at 310,685 miles at 28 hours travel time? 11,095 mph. That's not fast enough to have to incorporate the Lorentz factor because it's not even percent of the Lorentz factor. It's ~.0017% c. We will probably get there when we scale up to 150,000,000.
I do not feel like doing the math but I've provided all the necessary equations and concepts needed to carry out the calculations. Someone else do it as I can't be arsed to spend an hour working this out.
People need to stop pretending power levels mean anything other than "X can beat up Y."
Sure, technically it means overall their attributes are superior, but fact of the matter is power levels were an inconsistent system and plain stupid, meant nothing.
I don't think Power Levels really correlate consistently with speed. I mean, the difference in speed between a 1,000 and a 5,000, seems more drastic than a 1,000,000 vs 5,000,000.
good god. you have a nasty tendency of making things a lot harder then they need to be, i've noticed. based on real world analogies, goku would never be able to come remotely close to achieving the speed of light, because he lacks an infinite amount of energy. and if we are using RW physics, they also state that any object with mass can NOT reach the speed of light... so goku's screwed again. but i don't think it's necessarily right to apply RW physics to characters who can shoot energy blasts out of their hands, either. just my opinion.
anyway i don't think there's a direct correlation between power levels and speed (or at least it doesn't seem as drastic) once you get beyond a certain level.
anyway you might take note that i wasn't the one who came in this thread and tried to apply the laws of RW physics to characters who obviously dont abide by them... nor am i the one who said: "Non sequitur logical fallacy: one does not necessitate the other"... which is what really implied that you were picking and choosing which laws these fictional characters abide by, and which ones they dont, based on your own opinion. in fact, i never even gave my opinion on the matter, so im not sure how what i said is "hypocritical"...?
anyway, i dont have a problem with you touting your intelligence regarding ftl travel... just dont act like its incontrovertible fact. especially when youre applying RW concepts to fictional characters, who abide by fictional rules.
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Last edited by john allerdyce on May 6th, 2011 at 07:56 PM
I know: you just deflected with hypocritical statements instead of addressing the points.
Wrong, you did come into this thread and give your opinion on the matter.
And, "duh", they do not disregard every last bit of physics/science. In fact, the exception is a short list and the rule is the long list.
Intelligence?
How about "education"?
Additionally, I tried to use the names of everything I brought up so any of your could google search and educate yourselves on it. That way, nothing I said would be left ambiguous and you could look it up. So, while you pretend to be offended by "knowledge", I say "look it up and stop whining."
Here's the same for you: don't act like there's a separate set of rules that apply when, quite clearly, most regular physics apply to their universe. This includes inertia, velocity and energy required to produce those velocities, and a general adherence to the "not faster than light" rule. The only exception we have from the Z Warriors is Goku's teleportation technique. He calls it light speed, but we the reader know differently.
I see your posts as "newbish" to the entire discussion. You're about 10 years behind.
I have an idea - stop derailing the thread to troll someone. Instead, show us the linear growth of Goku in his Power Level to speed correlation from a PL of around 460 to 5000. Thanks. What's that? You say there is not correlation? If you do, you're actually directly wrong as that's not what is read.
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Last edited by dadudemon on May 6th, 2011 at 10:53 PM
negative. the only opinion i gave is when i said that i personally didnt think the speed/PL ratio seemed as drastic after the Z fighters reached a certain point.
you presented a theorem that you felt is used in DBZ... but can you actually provide evidence that the z-universe utilizes the 'Lorentz factor' when they deal with speed..? i dont remember it ever being mentioned. nor do i ever recall a z warrior saying "i cannot reach c because i lack an infinite amount of energy". just saying.
instead of limiting them via relativistic effects, dont you think its possible that they simply lack the physical prowess to move that fast? ie. they have a speed cap due to the physical limitations of their bodies, not because of anything else.
meh, i guess it is easier to brand someone "newbish" or a "troll", just because you dont like what they have to say - but i havent been either. dont get cranky just because i called you on a point that i feel was incorrect... that is, afterall, what debating forums revolve around.
Back to the thread; Ignoring the fact that PL doesnt have a linear growth, that DB Goku was faster than the speed we get for the first try of snake way and that even a Buu saga SSJ Gotenks was Mach 1000 at the very best then sure... maybe by SSJ he'd be lightspeed. But it'd be foolish to think like this.
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"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
I want you to reply to it since we both know that a Super Saiyan is MUCH faster than a Goku that ran snake way in 28 hrs unless you honestly believe that Saiyan saga speed is>than the speed of the Goku that fought the Ginyu force and = to a Super Saiyan which would be next to half crazy.
Super Saiyan Goku speed>>>Goku speed that freshly arrived on Namek>>>Goku that took 28 hrs to cross snake way.
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May 1st, 2011 10:32 PM
