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How is Palpatine back (SPOILERS)
Started by: xPRIMEx

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xPRIMEx
Son of Darkness

Registered: Apr 2018
Location:


 

How is Palpatine back (SPOILERS)

Spoiler alert!!!

Ok youíve been warned.

Something that really annoyed me about the new movie is that it never explains Palpatineís return. There are mentions of clones and sith magic, but it never really gives us a clear answer. What were your thoughts on this?

Personally, I think itís somewhat implied that he might be a clone, perhaps Sidiousí spirit was transferred to this clone body upon his death in ROTJ and his clone body was deteriorating because it couldnít handle his dark side power. Thatís my theory. The downside to this theory is that it leaves the possibility open for him to return again since he could have more clone bodies...

My secondary theory, and I like this one more, is that his original body was recovered by his sith followers and they performed some dark side ritual to return his spirit to his body and resurrect him.

And my third theory is that he just never died but his body was so ****ed up from the Death Star explosion that he pretty much became a cripple. This is my least favorite theory because it completely shits on anakin and vaderís sacrifice. This seems unlikely though since Palpatine says something like "I've died before", implying that he actually died in ROTJ.

Also doesn't he mention something about all of the sith living in him? Does that have something to do with his resurrection? Idk, none of it makes any ****ing sense. What do you guys think?

Last edited by xPRIMEx on Dec 21st, 2019 at 05:10 PM

Old Post Dec 21st, 2019 05:00 PM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

Who da fuk knows. Will have to wait for the novelisation.

These movies dont stand on their own without novels and comics to fill in the major plot gaps.

Old Post Dec 21st, 2019 05:51 PM
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Rebel95
Senior Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: US


 

Probably one of your first 2 theories. Either a clone or some kind of resurrection ritual

Old Post Dec 21st, 2019 07:12 PM
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StiltmanFTW
Carver's Advisor

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Carverland


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Who da fuk knows. Will have to wait for the novelisation.

These movies dont stand on their own without novels and comics to fill in the major plot gaps.


And video games.

And tv shows.

And cartoons.

And so on.


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Old Post Dec 21st, 2019 07:33 PM
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Total Warrior
Dark Councilor

Registered: Nov 2014
Location: Padova, Italy


 

It's quite impossible he survived EP6. Not only did he fall into the core, but he should have also withstood the explosion of the death star a few minutes later. And if it weren't enough, he would be literally floating in space since there is no death star or any imperial ship left since they withdrew. Nah, he transferred his consciousness or he is a clone


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Old Post Dec 21st, 2019 09:14 PM
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samhain
The Demon Hunter

Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Malebolge


 

He manipulated the midichlorians to gather his lifeforce/soul and re-sequence him Trek-style.


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Old Post Dec 21st, 2019 10:31 PM
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xPRIMEx
Son of Darkness

Registered: Apr 2018
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Total Warrior
It's quite impossible he survived EP6. Not only did he fall into the core, but he should have also withstood the explosion of the death star a few minutes later. And if it weren't enough, he would be literally floating in space since there is no death star or any imperial ship left since they withdrew. Nah, he transferred his consciousness or he is a clone

Well we saw the Death Star wreckage and it showed that there were still a lot of things intact so itís entirely possible his body wasnt completely destroyed...

Old Post Dec 21st, 2019 11:40 PM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Theater of War


 

The RoS Visual Dictionary states: "When the battle of Endor was over, it had claimed the lives of the Empire's key leadership, including Palpatine and Darth Vader." So Palpatine(as we knew him) is still recognized to have 'died' in RotJ.

In the film itself, Palpatine states to Kylo: "I have died before... The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."

The Dictionary implies that the Sith Loyalists resurrected Palpatine through "a mixture of technology and the occult."

In the film itself, Beaumont Kin(who is recognized as an expert in the field of Sith occult) states: "Dark science...Cloning...Secrets only the Sith knew", upon learning of Palpatine's return.

Tack that onto the vat of Snoke clones seen in the film, and I'd say that Palpatine cloned himself, and learned how to transfer his own essence(along with the essence/power of EVERY Sith Lord in history) into a cloned body by way of esoteric Sith rituals. It also seems like the clone bodies begin prematurely deteriorating when exposed to that much dark power(similarly to what happened to Palpatine's clones in DE), so it's possible that he may have needed to body-hop more than once... But when Palpatine absorbs the power of a Force dyad, it is able to heal/stabilize his decayed body and restore his full power.



...And Lord Momin also showed us that there are other ways to resurrect oneself after death, but that's neither here nor there.


__________________

"A great tactician creates plans.
A good tactician recognizes the soundness of a plan presented to him.
A fair tactician must see the plan succeed before offering approval.
Those with no tactical ability at all may never understand or accept the plan.
Nor will such people understand or accept the tactician.
To those without that ability, those who possess it are a mystery.
And when a mind is too deficient in understanding, the resulting gap is often filled with resentment."

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Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 23rd, 2019 at 03:33 AM

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2019 03:30 AM
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Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

Yet despite all that and the similarities...DE handled the story better.

Also Dyad?...I just can't get behind that.

Dyad...Force Dyad....Force. Dyad.

.....Nope.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2019 03:39 AM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Theater of War


 

Yeah. Balance I can understand, but the dyad concept is just an unneeded plot device that overly complicates things, imo.

Also, Snoke was aware of the dyad between Rey and Ben, but Palpatine seemed to have only realized it when he absorbed their power during the final battle. If Palpatine was pulling Snoke's strings the entire time, you'd think he would have already been aware of the dyad, but I digress...


__________________

"A great tactician creates plans.
A good tactician recognizes the soundness of a plan presented to him.
A fair tactician must see the plan succeed before offering approval.
Those with no tactical ability at all may never understand or accept the plan.
Nor will such people understand or accept the tactician.
To those without that ability, those who possess it are a mystery.
And when a mind is too deficient in understanding, the resulting gap is often filled with resentment."

-Thrawn

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2019 04:05 AM
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StiltmanFTW
Carver's Advisor

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Carverland


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah. Balance I can understand, but the dyad concept is just an unneeded plot device that overly complicates things, imo.

Also, Snoke was aware of the dyad between Rey and Ben, but Palpatine seemed to have only realized it when he absorbed their power during the final battle. If Palpatine was pulling Snoke's strings the entire time, you'd think he would have already been aware of the dyad, but I digress...


PM it to Quan and watch the movie forum burn.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2019 04:22 AM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Theater of War


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
PM Quan
sick


__________________

"A great tactician creates plans.
A good tactician recognizes the soundness of a plan presented to him.
A fair tactician must see the plan succeed before offering approval.
Those with no tactical ability at all may never understand or accept the plan.
Nor will such people understand or accept the tactician.
To those without that ability, those who possess it are a mystery.
And when a mind is too deficient in understanding, the resulting gap is often filled with resentment."

-Thrawn

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2019 04:32 AM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

Without explaining it and clearing up why this time is different, theres absolutely no reason why Palpatine would not still be alive.

Just stupid AF.

And yes Dark Empire handled it a million times better.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2019 08:18 AM
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Sith Master X
Darth Sadistic

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: The Empire


 

My interpretation was that Palpatine was pretty much dead at the start...and that his body was hooked up to machines to slow down the decomposing process.

The white eyes implied to me that his spirit was possessing his dead body. Hence he is able to speak but not move very much.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2019 06:58 PM
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ares834
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

Gotta disagree with the idea that itís a clone body he is possessing that degraded due to dark side usage. If that were the case, the draining Kylo and Rey should only temporarily restore his body (there is no mention of stabilization or whatever). Seems pretty clear to me that it was meant to be his original body the whole time.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2019 07:47 PM
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StiltmanFTW
Carver's Advisor

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Carverland


 

Cloning was mentioned as a possibility in the film, though.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2019 08:04 PM
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ares834
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

By someone who has nothing to do with his resurrection.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2019 10:02 PM
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StiltmanFTW
Carver's Advisor

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Carverland


 

Sure, just saying.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2019 10:30 PM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Theater of War


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
By someone who has nothing to do with his resurrection.
Granted. But the guy is still credited as an expert in Sith lore/occult, so he's not just some random Resistance dipshit meant to be arbitrarily throwing red herrings around. /shrug

I agree that it doesn't *have* to be a clone body, but there are signs pointing in that direction, imo... Especially when Snoke's existence tells us that Palpatine's occult-science was indeed capable of amalgamating the force with cloned vessels.

Either way, given the evidence at hand, it does seem that Palpatine(as we knew him) died in RotJ. How exactly his resurrection came to be afterward is the biggest question... And who knows if it will ever be satisfactorily answered.


__________________

"A great tactician creates plans.
A good tactician recognizes the soundness of a plan presented to him.
A fair tactician must see the plan succeed before offering approval.
Those with no tactical ability at all may never understand or accept the plan.
Nor will such people understand or accept the tactician.
To those without that ability, those who possess it are a mystery.
And when a mind is too deficient in understanding, the resulting gap is often filled with resentment."

-Thrawn

Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 24th, 2019 at 02:24 AM

Old Post Dec 24th, 2019 01:51 AM
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Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

I think the biggest question is....WHY Dyad?...Just....ugh...whyyy??


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2019 02:44 AM
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