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Christianity, Judaism and Islam finally unite...against gays!
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Tex
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Angry Christianity, Judaism and Islam finally unite...against gays!

quote:

March 31, 2005
Clerics Fighting a Gay Festival for Jerusalem
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN and GREG MYRE

International gay leaders are planning a 10-day WorldPride festival and parade in Jerusalem in August, saying they want to make a statement about tolerance and diversity in the Holy City, home to three great religious traditions.

Now major leaders of the three faiths - Christianity, Judaism and Islam - are making a rare show of unity to try to stop the festival. They say the event would desecrate the city and convey the erroneous impression that homosexuality is acceptable.

"They are creating a deep and terrible sorrow that is unbearable," Shlomo Amar, Israel's Sephardic chief rabbi, said yesterday at a news conference in Jerusalem attended by Israel's two chief rabbis, the patriarchs of the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox and Armenian churches, and three senior Muslim prayer leaders. "It hurts all of the religions. We are all against it."

Abdel Aziz Bukhari, a Sufi sheik, added: "We can't permit anybody to come and make the Holy City dirty. This is very ugly and very nasty to have these people come to Jerusalem."

Israeli authorities have not indicated what action, if any, they might take to limit the events. Banning the festival would seem unlikely, though the government could withhold the required permits for specific events, like a parade.

Interfaith agreement is unusual in Israel. The leaders' joint opposition was initially generated by the Rev. Leo Giovinetti, an evangelical pastor from San Diego who is both a veteran of the American culture war over homosexuality and a frequent visitor to Israel, where he has formed relationships with rabbis and politicians.

Organizers of the gay pride event, Jerusalem WorldPride 2005, said that 75 non-Orthodox rabbis had signed a statement of support for the event, and that Christian and Muslim leaders as well as Israeli politicians were expected to announce their support soon. They said they were dismayed to see that what united their opponents was their objection to homosexuality.

"That is something new I've never witnessed before, such an attempt to globalize bigotry," said Hagai El-Ad, the executive director of Jerusalem Open House, a gay and lesbian group that is the host for the festival. "It's quite sad and ironic that these religious figures are coming together around such a negative message."

Rabbi Sharon Kleinbaum, co-chairwoman of the festival and the rabbi of Congregation Beth Simchat Torah, a gay synagogue in New York City, said the controversy was another sign that each religion had become polarized between its liberal and conservative wings.

The global Anglican Communion split deeply over homosexuality in the last two years after its American affiliate ordained an openly gay bishop and the Canada affiliate decided to allow blessings of same-sex unions.

"I reject that they have the right to define religion in such a narrow way," Rabbi Kleinbaum said of religious leaders who denounce homosexuality. "Gay and lesbian people are saying we are equal partners in religious communities, and we believe in a religious world in which all are created in God's image."

The festival is planned for Aug. 18-28 and is expected to draw thousands of visitors from dozens of countries. The theme is "Love Without Borders," and a centerpiece will be a parade on Aug. 25 through Jerusalem, a city that remains deeply conservative, though other parts of Israel have become increasingly accepting of gays in recent years. Other events include a film festival, art exhibits and a conference for clerics.

When the first WorldPride festival was held five years ago in Rome, religious opposition came from the Vatican, while secular opposition came from a neo-Fascist group that vowed to hold a counterdemonstration. But the neo-Fascists canceled their demonstration, the march came off peacefully, and even a few center-right politicians joined many thousands of marchers.

One day later, however, Pope John Paul II appeared on a balcony over St. Peter's Square and delivered a message expressing his "bitterness" that the gay festival had gone forward, calling it an "offense to the Christian values of a city that is so dear to the hearts of Catholics across the world."

Both WorldPride festivals were initiated by an umbrella group, InterPride, that says its mission is to promote gay rights internationally.

The outcry over the 2005 festival will not be confined to Israel. The American evangelical leader who helped to galvanize the opposition, Mr. Giovinetti, is the senior pastor of Mission Valley Christian Fellowship, an independent church that meets in a hotel in Southern California. A former band leader in Las Vegas, he is also host of a radio program heard on stations around the United States.

Neither he nor other evangelical American leaders were at the news conference in Jerusalem, which was called by the chief rabbinate of Israel. But by all accounts Mr. Giovinetti played a crucial role in spreading the first alarms among religious leaders about the gay festival.

He said he had first heard about WorldPride from a congregation member who had told Mr. Giovinetti that he was gay for many years and still monitored gay Web sites. Mr. Giovinetti said he alerted Israeli politicians and religious leaders.

Mr. Giovinetti circulated a petition against the festival, titled "Homosexuals to Desecrate Jerusalem," which he said had been signed by every member of the ultra-Orthodox Shas Party in the Israeli Parliament. Another American who helped bring together the opposition was Rabbi Yehuda Levin, of the Rabbinical Alliance of America, which says it represents more than 1,000 American Orthodox rabbis. At the news conference in Jerusalem, he called the festival "the spiritual rape of the Holy City." He said, "This is not the homo land, this is the Holy Land."

Annual marches by homosexuals have become routine in Tel Aviv, a secular coastal city. For the past three years, gay parades have also been staged in Jerusalem. Religious groups have complained, but the police have issued permits for the events, which have been held without any serious incidents.


Isn't that sweet? Cant you just feel the love? love
God would be proud. I think that's the reason he created gay people, to capitalise on the hate and prejudice of the 3 largest religions in order to bring them together.

Yes I think the gay march should be prevented at all costs! As the rabbi said "this is very ugly and very nasty to have these people come to Jerusalem" and "the event would desecrate the city".

A city that is filled with peace, love and acceptance and has a history of each! *sarcasm* roll eyes (sarcastic)

Frankly I dont know why the fabulous gays would want to march in that dirty little sh!t sand city anyways. Its the capital of ignorance, prejudice and hate.

They should stay in Frisco looking fabulous! zorro


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 04:47 PM
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Clovie

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whole Texy....


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 04:48 PM
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Mainstream
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united..by hate...it seems to be the only way to bring groups so deverse together...ironic isn't is?

Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 04:49 PM
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Tex
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Gay people need to disassociate themselves from religion completely and stop their futile attempts to seek understanding from religious people and leaders.

These people hate gays because they believe their god hates gays.
Nothing you do or say will ever change their minds.

These are silly weak minded people that lack reason and do not understand that their religions are founded upon lies and fallacies.

God has never spoken through anyone.
Homosexuality is natural, it occurs in almost every species. Why create something if you hate it?

These religious people infuriate me to no end. This is the perfect example of how their hate and prejudice is detrimental to human advancement and social advancement.


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 05:02 PM
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Mainstream
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Agreed Tex

Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 05:05 PM
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Tex
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Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 05:07 PM
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Mainstream
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Awwwwwwwwwww

Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 05:08 PM
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botankus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Tex
Gay people need to disassociate themselves from religion completely and stop their futile attempts to seek understanding from religious people and leaders.


Simple solution: Ignore the WorldPride Festival and the religious issues surrounding it. I couldn't think of a better way for "disassociation." There you have it, nobody gets hurt, and case is closed.


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Last edited by botankus on Mar 31st, 2005 at 05:14 PM

Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 05:10 PM
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WanderingDroid
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Moving to Religion forum....


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 05:14 PM
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Echuu
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the whole premise that god actually created gays is a debatable topic it self


actually the fact is that religious organization do lots to benefit mankind

Most religious people have a higher stance of morality than any non religious person and are less likely to kill, steal, cheat, etc...

Another fact is that in every organization there is an opportunity for people to be corrupt and bigoted, or ungrateful or whatever. And the opportunity can and does turn into reality.

But these hateful and predujice people who are generally a small minority get the most news.

When's the last time you heard "christians reach out to felons, showing them the love of christ"?


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 05:14 PM
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Tex
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I love how religious people own morality. Suggesting that if your not a religious person you have no morals.

I stumbled upon this beautiful quote, its uncredited.

"Morality is doing what's right regardless of what you're told. Religion is doing what you're told regardless of what's right."

Current scientific research strongly suggests that sexuality is determined by genetics as opposed to environment. The research suggesting its environmental is minute compared to the genetic.

Besides, how exactly does a little penguin turn gay from living in his environment?

You know they have gay penguins dont you? They live together and have sex and they sit on little round rocks trying to hatch them.
There's dolphins and cats and dogs, baboons, gorillas, giraffes, elephants, birds you name it and homosexuality exists.

If animals are instinct their sexuality is determined by genetics. Humans are no different, we're all created from the same building blocks. God loves his gays! love


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 05:32 PM
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PVS
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religion is shit.
i believe in jesus, but never really bring it up,
since i dont want to be associated with this gang of hateful thugs.
if there really is a hell, i bet that most of these high and mighty a$$holes
who point their fingers at gays as being damnable will find themselves damned. hypocrites make me sick.

and yes, all gay people should shout a collective "f*** your religion".
why would you want to be a part of an establishment built on a foundation of hate, bigotry, persecution, war, murder, corruption...and well...........evil?

Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 05:33 PM
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finti
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all gays of the world should get out of their religious societies and create a new religion of their own where everybody is welcomed

Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 05:36 PM
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Tex
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Echuu

actually the fact is that religious organization do lots to benefit mankind

Most religious people have a higher stance of morality than any non religious person and are less likely to kill, steal, cheat, etc...


They do very little actually. The vast majority of their "good work" is done to promote their cause of spreading Christianity. Organised Christian church's are extremely wealthy organisations whose vast wealth is used to grow and promote their ideals. To upkeep and build church's and sustain their powerful grip.

A very small percentage of their wealth goes to charitable causes.

The premise of heaven also helps entice them to do good and the threat of hell prevents them from doing wrong.

I'm not Christian but god has given me reason to know what's right and wrong. I dont need to be bribed with heaven to get me to do something good. I dont do wrong because I know it is just that and I'm a good person.

Hell plays no part in my decision, I dont believe it or heaven exists.

Who's more moral - someone who does good expecting no divine reward or someone who does something good only for a divine reward?

Christianity and morality are two synonymous that should never be used together.


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Last edited by Tex on Mar 31st, 2005 at 05:47 PM

Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 05:44 PM
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Echuu
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no expression ok

Please dont put words in my mouth- I never said that non religious people dont have morals- i said that people who are part of a religion generally have a higher moral stance

Who are these scientists you speak of?
Where are these gay animals?
Do you have proof?

I don't seem to hear about this much; I mean, my friend has a bunch of dogs and never once has he said, "hey my two male dogs were trying to hump each other yesterday."

I think it is environment; and there are gays that have turned straight and vica versa

for example; that gay politician who was married and had two kids;
I guess he was born gay.....
roll eyes (sarcastic)

I personally don't like the term religion. Too many christians today have gotten stuck in just doing the same old routine


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 05:45 PM
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Tex
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Echuu
[B]no expression ok

Please dont put words in my mouth- I never said that non religious people dont have morals- i said that people who are part of a religion generally have a higher moral stance


You're clearly suggesting that non religious people have sub-par morals or none at all. Putting religious people on a moral pedestal solely because their religious. That's wrong and prejudiced.

quote:
Who are these scientists you speak of?
Where are these gay animals?
Do you have proof?

These scientists do exist, gay animals are a fact and yes there is proof. The church used to label homosexuality as "animalistic". Research the topics and you'll discover a wealth of information.

quote:

I don't seem to hear about this much; I mean, my friend has a bunch of dogs and never once has he said, "hey my two male dogs were trying to hump each other yesterday."


Homosexuals make up a very small percentage of the total human population, the same is true of the animal kingdom. Your friend hasn't been blessed with any gay dogs. Shame really, I dont think he'll be winning any dog shows! stick out tongue


quote:
I think it is environment; and there are gays that have turned straight and vica versa

for example; that gay politician who was married and had two kids;
I guess he was born gay.....
roll eyes (sarcastic)


He was born gay, he was living as a closet homosexual who had sex with women to keep up appearances. He loves his wife very much but not in a sexual way. It is possible for a gay man to have sex with a woman and not enjoy it. Happens all the time. Society is such that many homosexuals are afraid to come out for fear of persecution and discrimination. So they live in denial and hide their homosexuality.


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 05:59 PM
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I find that really hard to believe.JM


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 06:20 PM
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Echuu
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Tex
You're clearly suggesting that non religious people have sub-par morals or none at all. Putting religious people on a moral pedestal solely because their religious. That's wrong and prejudiced.


These scientists do exist, gay animals are a fact and yes there is proof. The church used to label homosexuality as "animalistic". Research the topics and you'll discover a wealth of information.



Homosexuals make up a very small percentage of the total human population, the same is true of the animal kingdom. Your friend hasn't been blessed with any gay dogs. Shame really, I dont think he'll be winning any dog shows! stick out tongue




He was born gay, he was living as a closet homosexual who had sex with women to keep up appearances. He loves his wife very much but not in a sexual way. It is possible for a gay man to have sex with a woman and not enjoy it. Happens all the time. Society is such that many homosexuals are afraid to come out for fear of persecution and discrimination. So they live in denial and hide their homosexuality.


What are you talking about? It's not prejudice, it's truth. Mass murderers, thieves, and rapists usuually are those without any type of religion. I'm not saying that unreligious people don't have a chance for that higher morality but that religious people usually do have it.
A good question to ask is where does morality come from.

I will research those topics.

"Your friend hasn't been blessed with any gay dogs. Shame really, I dont think he'll be winning any dog shows! stick out tongue"

laughing


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 06:29 PM
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Tex
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quote:
What are you talking about? It's not prejudice, it's truth. Mass murderers, thieves, and rapists usuually are those without any type of religion. I'm not saying that unreligious people don't have a chance for that higher morality but that religious people usually do have it.
A good question to ask is where does morality come from.


I dont think that's entirely accurate. Just look at the Italian mob, very religious and very violent and crime prone. As far as mass murders go, lets not forget all of the people mass murdered by Christians during the crusades and Inquisitions.

Religious people have been responsible for more murders (in the name of their religion) than non religious people.


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 07:33 PM
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Echuu
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Tex
I dont think that's entirely accurate. Just look at the Italian mob, very religious and very violent and crime prone. As far as mass murders go, lets not forget all of the people mass murdered by Christians during the crusades and Inquisitions.

Religious people have been responsible for more murders (in the name of their religion) than non religious people.


I don't think that's entirely true.
The Italian mob was more "religious" per say in family values, not necessarily church going.

The Inquisitions and most of the crusades were very horrible I do agree.

I still totally despise the word religion. For me I don't have one;
I prefer a "personal relationship with Jesus Christ" to being apart of a large denomination, though the Assembly of God churchs are quite un-bigoted and fair.

I suppose you could say that churchs who are religious get into more of a judgmental attitude to those that sin and that is where the hate comes from.
It runs into the practice what you preach thing. If more people were truely "Pious" instead of religious they would be more loving.


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2005 08:31 PM
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