I seek to make a civilized and highly philisophical discussion concerning the identities of the two Elven-lords named Glorfindel - the one, of Gondolin, and the other, of Rivendell.
I'll type this up when I get my new computer, (I don't have the time right now, nor the literary resources required, at this time). I'll write some stuff up in Manuscript form, and hopefully have it ready by then.
The Glorfindel of Rivendell Could very well have been the REincarnation of the Glorfindel of Gondolin. Since the 'first' Glorfindel perished, it has been discussed that when his spirit was sent to the Halls of Mandos, it was sent back as a companion of Olorin( Gandalf)
quote: We can therefore reasonably suppose that Glorfindel, after the purging or forgiveness of his part in the rebellion of the Noldor, was released from Mandos and became himself again, but remained in the Blessed Realm - for Gondolin was destroyed and all or most of his kin had perished. We can thus understand why he seems so powerful a figure and almost 'angelic'. For he had returned to the primitive innocence of the First-born, and had then lived among those Elves who had never rebelled, and in the companionship of the Maiar (2) for ages: from the last years of the First Age, through the Second Age, to the end of the first millennium of the Third Age: before he returned to Middleearth.( 3) It is indeed probable that he had in Valinor already become a friend and follower of Olorin. Even in the brief glimpses of him given in The Lord of the Rings he appears as specially concerned for Gandalf, and was one (the most powerful, it would seem) of those sent out from Rivendell when the disquieting news reached Elrond that Gandalf had never reappeared to guide or protect the Ring-bearer
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I am sure the thread starter knows the various sources. This is one of the classic 'nerd' debates of Middle-Earth, after all.
The 'truth' is simple- Tolkien simply re-used a lot of his names for LOTR that he used in his backstories (which, remember, he was not intending for publication). Later on, he was considering amending the continuity so that both Glorfindels were the same, but never got around to doing it before he died.
Hence, the narrative is not yet (and never will be) in the form it would had they been the same.
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In one of the first written versions of LoTR, Tolkien has Glorfindel narrate of his past in Gondolin at the council of Elrond.
I'm not sure, but as far as I remember in some comments Tolkien also explains how the Valar decided to let Glorfindel return to Middle-earth after his death.
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Im not sure if this has been said before yet-but Tolkien belived that one of the Glorfindels (i think its the Rivendell one) was one of the Blue Wizards or could have possibly been one of them......(Pallando....i think)
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No, he talks about how that is the way he was thinking of having it go. But he never actually amended the narrative to fit. No surprise- prett ymuch none of the Simarillion was in anything approaching a finished state,
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Tolkien was always very vague about the Blue Wizards... ven to the extent that he never clearly states whether their non-return from the east was planned or not.... did Saruman kill them? did they just carry on when he turned back to the west?? who knows.... all we know is that they went into the east and never returned.... although it is stated a couple of times that Gandalf was the only one of the Istari to remain faithful to his mission, Tolkien allows the possibility that Radagast too was steadfast, but states that he feels the Blue Wizards failed..... as for Glorfindel, it is (to me at least) obvious that Glorfindel was meant to have survived the fall of Gondolin, although he was believed dead.... then he dwindles, becoming a wanderer instead of an Elf king, finally settling in Rivendell....
Sep 12th, 2005 12:06 AM
(Pallando....i think)
