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Max Lord had a point...
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chris_64256
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Question Max Lord had a point...

I was reading Wonder Woman issue 219 and it hit me, Max lord kinda had apoint when you think about. These superheroes some with destructive power to kill millions of people destroy cities and even worse in supermans case enslave mankind or destroy earth with that kind of power they wield how would you trust them? I mean think about it thats a very scary thought in my mind if the DC universe was real your telling you would not fear these so called heros who like I said in some case are walking atomic bombs heres the quote that did it for me when max was talking about taking over supermans mind, " What I've done to him took time, It Took Effort. BUt the fact that I COULD DO it at all proves my point. Because If I can do it, Someone ELSE Can, TOO. And That's the Heart of it, Brother. Superman, Wonder Woman, the Rest of them They'll Kill Us ALL... If we Dont kill them FIRST." Something to think about Tell me what your thoughts are on this..

Old Post Dec 21st, 2005 11:56 PM
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Digi
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It's still just a fancy justification for killing. Most would agree that very few reasons (if any at all) can do that.

Good and Evil exist in many forms. Some very powerful. The world also has enough Bombs to eradicate human life. And while I would agree that we should eliminate the (non-sentient) threat of the bombs, those with the power to destroy shouldn't necessairly have to be killed.

Max Lord's point should have been proven false simply from the fact that it hadn't happened yet. Sure, maybe the human race would all be enslaved. But maybe those with amazing powers would find a ay to improve the lives of millions. What if a meteor was going to hit Earth? Or if the world went into a water shortage? Super heroes could help with that sort of stuff...but it's more exciting to see Iceman stopping bad guys than providing water to Third World countries, so that's what we see in the comics.

How do you trust police? They have the power to kill...more than most of us. But we trust them. Same idea, except bigger, with people like Superman and WW. I'd feel fine with them around...not more or less safe, just different.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2005 12:19 AM
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chris_64256
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First off just want to say I respect your post I understand what your saying But, First off comparing cops to a super powered being who wield the power to make the hurricane we suffered in america look like a joke If you understand my post and what hit home was when he said the fact he could do it means it could happen and this time he was aimed at other "heroes" not the human race. And the fact that that tragedy hasnt happened yet doesnt mean it wont. Yeah cops are some what scary at there actions sometimes the worst is hurting a few people one small mistake from a Guy like Supes can mean death to millions big difference. And I'm just talking about heroes all superpowered people like In crisis right now people are suffering greatly because of these beings. Thats all I'm saying once again appreciate your post.

Old Post Dec 22nd, 2005 02:35 AM
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Likewise, I see the thin line we're walking, and understand and respect what you're saying even though I disagree.

Yeah, Supes and cops are on another level...just trying to make a real-world analogy. Didn't exactly work too well.

Still, no one would argue that someone like Superman is "bad." Even Max Lord would concede the point. But the 'potential' to do evil is what caused him to try to kill them all. Sounds like Shakespeare's Brutus and Julius Caesar to me. Brutus kills him for the monster Caesar MIGHT become. Was he right? I'd say no...maybe you'd disagree.

Most mainstream super heroes try to rehabilitate their foes (thus Batman's villians always returning) rather than kill them. A few kill their foes so that they won't be a possible threat anymore (Punisher on occasion, for example, or The Authority from Wildstorm comics). That's a bit harder line on things, but is still generally a "let's do good" mentality.

Max Lord, on the other hand, is killing good and evil alike (or at least that's his goal). Doesn't Superman have some rights to life as well? Or any of the other heros? To kill the "bad guys" for the greater good is one thing (though I'd still disagree with that approach) but it's another to kill without any sort of moral agenda. Max Lord's nigh-on-persecution-complex for any super powered being bordered on insanity.

Philosophy aside, in simply a contextual comic setting, I'm not following the Crisis issue by issue (though I read most of the lead-ins to it). But there's bigger forces than Earth's super heroes out there (like Anti-Monitor in the original Crisis). Even with many innocents suffering, who is going to beat down the bad forces if not the super heroes?? Evil will arise in any setting, and in comics it generally takes on an epic and insanely powerful form. If all the super powered beings were killed (both good and bad) who would save the world all the time from aliens, interdimensional travelers, meteors, abstract and cosmic beings, etc.??

No, DC needs Superman and his kind. I won't struggle to find a real-world analogy, because there probably isn't one that captures it well enough. But I genuinely think that the killing, regardless of the reasoning, is wrong.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2005 05:10 AM
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he did have a point, yes, but so what? every single able bodied person on the planet has the ability to kill... you don't even need a gun

just because Superheroes have more power doesn't mean they should be locked up, discriminated against or killed

look at the real world, the USA has the largest number of weapons of mass destruction in the world, biological, chemical and nuclear (Nukular if George Bush is reading this) and just because they haven't destroyed France in a completely unprovoked attack yet doesn't mean, or prove, that they wont do it in the future.... should the people with control over the weapons be prosecuted for something they are capable of doing?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by chris_64256
how would you trust them?


judge them on their actions, not their capabilities

quote: (post)
Originally posted by chris_64256
"What I've done to him took time, It Took Effort. BUt the fact that I COULD DO it at all proves my point. Because If I can do it, Someone ELSE Can, TOO. And That's the Heart of it, Brother. Superman, Wonder Woman, the Rest of them They'll Kill Us ALL... If we Dont kill them FIRST."


that'll always be a possibility..... but you next door neighbour or your mother could one day just turn around and stab you to death as well

you can't control people, in order to do so you'd have to take away their free will... and doing that would be more destructive to humanity than dropping a nuclear bomb


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Last edited by Scoobless on Dec 22nd, 2005 at 05:16 AM

Old Post Dec 22nd, 2005 05:13 AM
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willRules
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Its like saying


"YOU HAVEN'T COMMITED THE CRIME YET, BUT YOU MIGHT DO, SO YOU HAVE TO PAY THE PIPER!!!"

Why don't we just lock every single person on the planet up as they have the capacity to commit evil or criminal acts?


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2005 10:41 AM
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chris_64256
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Scoobless usa did attack a country unprovoked but we will not get into that. You make a good point digimark that comic just kinda hit me in a weird way made sense to me in a way I would be very uneasy about beings with that kinda power Now that I think about it maybe I related to Darkseid lol I think I'm a villian I gues we know what my role would be lol...

Old Post Dec 22nd, 2005 11:25 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by chris_64256
Scoobless usa did attack a country unprovoked


attack, yes, obliterate, no.... i'm talking complete destruction here





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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2005 12:13 AM
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Understood let me turn this how about the hulk almost unstoppable uncontrolable has killed hundreds already should he live? Thats what I'm driving at one mistake, quite a few of these beings have powers they cannont control thats scary to me.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2005 12:26 AM
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Good thing we're in this universe, not Marvel or DC then. I agree...we all think it'd be cool to have powers, but without them the world would be a bit more cautious. We would just have to be careful not to turn that caution into hatred (like the mutant-hating that frequents X-Men comics).


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2005 04:54 AM
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you know who had the most convincing point in the whole thing? at least for me? Batman....ok so most of you wont agree, but common he's the link between the "superhero" stance and Max Lords point. He thought the meta humans and such COULD pose a thread (and prepared for that), but he wouldnt do anything about it till they proved to be an actualy threat to humanity....so even though everyone blames Batman and says its his fault, well what he did was in the interest of humanity, AND he really didnt cause what happened....but was prepared to save humanity when and if the superheros became unstable....


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2005 08:00 PM
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chris_64256
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Well heres the thing the mass majority of heroes are self appointed they make themselves involved in these world problems 98 or 99 % of these heroes are half human mostly human or have human traits which include jealousy, greed, anger, hatred etc when these beings lose it mankind suffers a great deal because of there abilities now my point goes along with bats that they have a place in the world but there should always be ways of eliminating there kind Omacs wasnt a bad Idea...

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2005 09:47 PM
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willRules
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by chris_64256
Well heres the thing the mass majority of heroes are self appointed they make themselves involved in these world problems 98 or 99 % of these heroes are half human mostly human or have human traits which include jealousy, greed, anger, hatred etc when these beings lose it mankind suffers a great deal because of there abilities now my point goes along with bats that they have a place in the world but there should always be ways of eliminating there kind Omacs wasnt a bad Idea...



true, but coouldn't it be argued that the knowledge of the existence of a deterrant to possible future threats only starts a chain reaction to feuling the threat. In other words, because Bat's created a way to solve a problem that may never happen, he set into motion events far more catostrophic.................


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2005 12:25 AM
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deterrents only work if both sides have something of similar power... otherwise it'll end up like Hiroshima again where the only side to fully develop a weapon uses it, to basically threaten the rest of the world

OMACs aren't a deterrent as some "heroes" are still vastly more powerful than them


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2005 02:42 AM
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Psycho Ninja
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In this world, wherever Good exsits, Evil does too !!!
Thats the point....

The more superheroes there are, more people wants to kill em !!!
In every country , there are freedom fighters
In every superheroes life, there are many haters.... and fanboys

In MLord's case, he's just jealous.... pfft !!


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Old Post Dec 26th, 2005 05:35 AM
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