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True Immortality v. Virtual Immortality - ?
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roughrider
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True Immortality v. Virtual Immortality - ?

I've seen in a lot of bios, talking about those Gods ( Olympians) who have True Immortality, versus Virtual Immortality ( Asgardians), who have extremely long life spans, instead. Except who was the last Asgardian that died of old age?
Back during Simonson's run, Thor met his great grandfather Tiwaz, still very powerful, and in happy retirement in the mountains.
And Zeus, for a true immortal, doesn't look much younger than Odin - at least not Elrond-looking young. This seems like a falsehood. I think either you are immortal, or not.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2005 05:27 PM
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Sir Whirlysplat
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Yes Tiswaz lived in a cave and was good at wretling, when idunns apples were stolen they were all going to die of old age.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2005 05:31 PM
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Black Adam
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I choose virtual insanity
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Starts moon walking and sliding over the floor.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2005 05:36 PM
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GalacticStorm
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Re: True Immortality v. Virtual Immortality - ?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by roughrider
I've seen in a lot of bios, talking about those Gods ( Olympians) who have True Immortality, versus Virtual Immortality ( Asgardians), who have extremely long life spans, instead. Except who was the last Asgardian that died of old age?
Back during Simonson's run, Thor met his great grandfather Tiwaz, still very powerful, and in happy retirement in the mountains.
And Zeus, for a true immortal, doesn't look much younger than Odin - at least not Elrond-looking young. This seems like a falsehood. I think either you are immortal, or not.


Not even the Olympians have tru eimmortality. If attacked by a sufficiently powerful force they too can die as stated in their bios. They however dont die from natural causes like the Asgardians eventually do.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2005 05:49 PM
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aton_ra
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zeus himslef said in hulk/hercules unleashed that even immortals can die.


vandal savage seems to be alot closer to immmortality if you ask me.

but i think when it comes down to immortality olympians and asgardians are equal.

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2005 08:52 PM
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Mindship
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No modern hero dies...he/she just fades into reprints.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2005 10:02 PM
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Psycho Ninja
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Vandal Savage is immortal due to an alien artifact.......... err... whats the name??


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2005 11:52 PM
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roughrider
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Immortality means you don't die of old age; you just keep living, in apparent health. It doesn't mean you can't be killed.
Think of LOTR: The Valar favoured their favourite children, The Elves, with Immortality. They would never die; just grow more beautiful and more wise. But their bodies were made of the earth, and in times of war, they could be slain like any other.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2005 01:46 AM
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GalacticStorm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by roughrider
Immortality means you don't die of old age; you just keep living, in apparent health. It doesn't mean you can't be killed.
Think of LOTR: The Valar favoured their favourite children, The Elves, with Immortality. They would never die; just grow more beautiful and more wise. But their bodies were made of the earth, and in times of war, they could be slain like any other.


Immortality doesnt mean that conclusively. Thats one of the definitions and that in itself isnt true immortality. True immortality is where you exist indefinitely whatever happens be it the end of the universe or whatever.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2005 11:30 AM
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grey fox
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not even the Olympians have tru eimmortality. If attacked by a sufficiently powerful force they too can die as stated in their bios. They however dont die from natural causes like the Asgardians eventually do.


Do you think jesus counts as a 'sufficent power'......


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2005 12:18 PM
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GalacticStorm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by grey fox
Do you think jesus counts as a 'sufficent power'......


Oh have you read godyssey? lol


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2005 12:40 PM
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roughrider
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The Elders Of The Universe are Immortal, but were still vunerable to being killed by sufficient force. They were put beyond death by the gamesmenship of The Grandmaster, however. Thanks to a scheme by him, Mistress Death would refuse them and send them back to life, if anything happened. Thanos has a similar marking. Not aware if any of it has been reversed lately.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2005 06:24 PM
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aton_ra
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by roughrider
The Elders Of The Universe are Immortal, but were still vunerable to being killed by sufficient force. They were put beyond death by the gamesmenship of The Grandmaster, however. Thanks to a scheme by him, Mistress Death would refuse them and send them back to life, if anything happened. Thanos has a similar marking. Not aware if any of it has been reversed lately.


actually, the elders of the universe can live for a few billion years but are not immortal.

thanos clarified this during the infinity quest.

Old Post Dec 24th, 2005 08:00 PM
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manjaro
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true immortality means you cant die no matter what, regardless of how powerful a force you are met with.. the most immediate example would be vandal savage, sinister,thanos, and warlock(not adam warlock).

Virtual immortailty means you will live forever providing you DONT get killed......by a powerful enuff force like deadpool, deathstroke, wolverine and sabretooth...if they just chill they could easily outlive the entire human race.

even tho in bio's the asgardians fall into the "virtual" category im still willing to say that they, and all gods are true immortals,,,why? cuz even if they die their essence is just gonna end up in the realm of whom ever in thier pantheon is god of death...who can turn around and let them go if they want to. so no matter who dies the option to come back ia always there


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Old Post Dec 25th, 2005 02:27 AM
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aton_ra
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by manjaro
true immortality means you cant die no matter what, regardless of how powerful a force you are met with.. the most immediate example would be vandal savage, sinister,thanos, and warlock(not adam warlock).

Virtual immortailty means you will live forever providing you DONT get killed......by a powerful enuff force like deadpool, deathstroke, wolverine and sabretooth...if they just chill they could easily outlive the entire human race.

even tho in bio's the asgardians fall into the "virtual" category im still willing to say that they, and all gods are true immortals,,,why? cuz even if they die their essence is just gonna end up in the realm of whom ever in thier pantheon is god of death...who can turn around and let them go if they want to. so no matter who dies the option to come back ia always there


AOA Sinister was completely destroyed by phoenix (proving that he can be killed) so he should count as virtually immortal.(and if x-men the end is to be believed true , then he only ages very slowly).

Old Post Dec 25th, 2005 10:05 AM
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redcaped
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Thor lives through incarnations. It's a line to the infinite thanks to us "humans".


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Old Post Dec 25th, 2005 06:51 PM
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manjaro
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well sinister has shown to come back from just a few molecules, just like deadpool has..but virtual immortality wouldnt be all that bad for him either, plus the reason he got there in the frist place is becuase he mucked with his own genes, so who knows, maybe he can engineer away that frailty in his makeup


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Old Post Dec 26th, 2005 09:01 PM
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olympian
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Nothing is true immortal in comics.

Ancient myths, depends. The Nords werent and the Olympians in prectically all versions wer. Thats why the big guns when defeated wer imprisioned in Tartarus instead of just dying.

Old Post Dec 26th, 2005 09:03 PM
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Glimmerone
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It depends on if you'll defining immortality according to the true concept of what it actually is. What manjaro stated in the first and second examples he/she gave is actually an example of being (1)completely immune to injury, and (2)having endless life.

To be immortal doesn't mean that you can't die by being kill(dead but body or particles of you remain) or destroyed(Annihilation, nothing remains down to the infinitesimal molecule or particle). To be truly immortal, is to have self-sustaining life, the kind of life force that is its own power source.

An immortal being doesn't need/or depend on any created thing to sustain its life essence, no special apples of power, no sun or stars, no food or water, nothing. There is nothing that sustains them or powers them except they themselves, they can breathe, talk in any environment.

People with everlasting life(perfect humans) wouldn't age, once they've reached full adulthood and don't get sick and die, but can definitely be killed just as an imperfect human would be killed, it would just take longer for them to die because of having a stronger-tougher body but still they would have human-level durability. Having immortality, means being a lot more than long-lived, whether you have a physical or spiritual body.

Most beings in comics that are long-lived and called immortal, just have a form of resistance to death/injury combined with near-endless or everlasting life that is based on the writer's understanding of

Immortality is a special gift that comes directly from God. The holy angels are not even immortal, they are spirit beings who are higher than and far more powerful than anything in the physical realm but they don't have self-sustaining life. Angels depend on God for life in the same manner as we human do, they just are higher forms of life, since they are spirit beings with spirit bodies just like God.

Jesus, was given immortality by God, after remaining faithful and accomplishing all God required of him, here on earth. A limited number of others, like his faithful apostles are spoken of in the Bible as being resurrected to heavenly life and given this special gift of self-sustaining life.

Old Post Jan 5th, 2006 04:36 AM
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manjaro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Glimmerone
What manjaro stated in the first and second examples he/she gave is actually an example of being (1)completely immune to injury, and (2)having endless life.


word, but im gonna go out on a limb and say HE..defintaley HE. in fact, all HE big grin cool


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Old Post Jan 5th, 2006 11:41 PM
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