Scoobless - Post #1: Bigfoot = Moonstone, Sasquatch & Yellowjacket
"He'll be big"
I have no doubt that Iron Man has access to knowledge of the basic abilities of my amalgam's component characters, that fact is pretty much irrelevant though as all of those abilities meshed together have been amplified to a degree that Stark does not have the ability to defend against.
Actually, Vision uses density control, Moonstone uses gravity altering properties.
Moonstone's phasing is different from other mainstream character's in the MU, as I will now show.
Unlike Vision she can choose to phase only part of her body:
So no, Moonstone's phasing is nothing like Vision's, it seems to be closer to Shadowcat's but there's still enough of a difference between Moonstone and everyone else to suggest that Tony Stark would not know how to counter this ability.
"I've had years to prepare countermeasures against your skills"
Clearly Stark has not had years to prepare against Moonstone, in fact he's never even been shown to have scanned her while phasing.
Sonics aren't even an annoyance, speed of sound weaponry is easily evaded by characters who can travel faster than sound (like Moonstone) also the distance required for useful effect has to be pretty close, at a mile above the battlefield from the bell (and rising fast) there's simply no way this tactic is going to bear fruit .... once the growth factor goes into overdrive then the reduced air in the atmosphere would render sonic weapons useless.
I've already shown how the Moonstone gem allows partial phasing of the body, which allows a character's own body parts to pass through him/herself when in a differently phased state ..... not that this is a vital issue, I just feel like debunking a lot of the false logic being used against me.
The Red Ghost was empowered by cosmic rays, Moonstone was not, there's no evidence to suggest that the same basic "blast" would have a similar effect on a moonstone bearer as it does on a freak of science.
The centrifugal force ray is pointless due to the fact that my character intends to grow beyond the scope of the Earth's gravity to harm.
Heh ... so you're saying that regardless of whatever happens you'll just change your plans? doesn't matter, you can't change your prep, you can't bring other armours/weapons on to the battlefield and you can't win with what you have.
Even at the basic 500 feet Iron Man would not have sufficient power to harm Bigfoot ... this is a character who is taking slightly-over-base-Hulk level stats and multiplying them a thousand fold ... what could Iron Man possibly do to that? Spot and Shaw have no offensive powers which add to Iron Man's arsenal and they don't even seem to be being used in this match so far.
Hellfire King cannot harm Bigfoot at standard level and he sure as hell can't do a thing against him at planet busting levels, there is simply no way for bigfoot to be harmed here.
Bigfoot has only one or two weaknesses that I am aware of (and by "weaknesses" I mean attacks that he isn't virtually/completely impervious against ... and no, I'm not saying what they are) but even against these possible assaults (of which his current opponent possesses neither) he can still mount an Earth shattering offense.
So yeah, I am drunk right now (you know you were thinking it) and I do apologise for being absent for as long as I have but I have no Internet connection in my flat, I've just started a new job and I'm having trouble finding the time/facilities to get online much recently ... but you have to admit, Bigfoot is pretty freakin' sweet!
Not sure why BW hasn't posted yet though, he seems to have been on a lot more than I have ... meh, each to his own I suppose, anyway, I need to go sleep, this post took waaaay longer than I expected and I need to get some rest before this party I have to go to tomorrow (or later today in fact)
Only thing amplified would be your size. Nothing else gets amped by increasing in size.
Later in this post I will explain that getting larger is not exactly better. Sometimes bigger ISN'T better.
Yes, but through gravity the only way she could do this phasing is through density control (even if it is more effective than Visions). What other possible way could it work?
He has also rigged his armor against Ghost, and while all phasing is not the same the variables of phasing he has protected against should prove very effective against your character.
Also in CoC2 Tony reverse engineered nanobots that had been forcing Shadowcat to remain solid (thus causing her extreme pain). If he knows about the general application of the nanobots (basically cutting off powers to all super humans) I am VERY sure he can do this simple anti phase feature.
He has shown this knowledge recently against the Hulk (alright so the anti hulk nanobots WERE NOT in the spike, thats why it didnt work, otherwise it would have, as it worked with She Hulk, and as he has the same stuff for Spiderman and other super powered characters). Also against the Avengers. While these two events are from post Extremis it shows his general knowledge of anti powers
Interesting. So you would say evade it? Or simply grow too large for it to matter? Ill get to your evading it in a moment, but you know Ironman just as well as I do. He has used it against Giant Man and Fing Fang Foom both extremely large characters.
No, but it would force her atoms to come together, thus making your character more "densely" packed together.
You didnt begin that way. With this weapon at my disposal you would very much be solid while you try this ten mile shenanigan
Sure I can. Its called giving myself a little leeway. I can spot my hand the distance over and pick up anything I need. Since I am not fully teleporting myself I can pick up anything I want actually.
I think a nuke at your heart should be enough to kill you
No matter how big you are, a nuke that destroys even a part of your heart is going to kill you.
Lets move on to a very important note though. Its basically about his vastly increased inertia - and the fact that the size increases give very diminishing returns.
Inertia. It's one of newtons laws. It means bigger objects are harder to move/stop than smaller objects are. You can read up some of the scientific details on wikipedia if you really want to go into all the physics of it, but suffice it to say, even without gravity or friction, someone with the strength of an astronaut cannot move the space shuttle.
As far as diminishing returns go, as Giant Man got taller, he got stronger, sure.
However, he starts getting stronger more slowly.
Think of a logarithm, for example. It is an infinite function, it never finds a asymptote, it's limit as X approaches infinity IS infinity.
However, check a graph of it. Look how INCREDIBLY slowly it increases.
Inertia, on the other hand (if I recall correctly) increases linearly with mass. A linear increase is MUCH greater than a logarithmic one.
Meaning, when his height surpasses his strength, he won't be able to overcome his own inertia.
If he's already in movement when this happens, he won't be able to stop. If he isn't, he won't be able to move.
Unless acted upon by an outside force, of course.
Also, at high inertia's, it will be far harder to change the direction of motion. He will be shit at maneuvering, for example, even if his inertia doesn't exceed his strength.
Ladies and Gentlemen I have the BEST maneuvering in the tournament. With my Spots I can come in at ANY angle I want and attack/defend.
So lets remember he is sluggish as all hell if he is able to move at all.
Lets combine this fact with the key to all my victories: I have, without question, THE best defense in ALL of the tournament: Spots
So lets look at a few scenarios (going from best to worst case for me):
(1) He gets huge and flies off into the sun or deep space - he had a ten mile increase in growing while flying up - once he reaches the point where mass>strength he wont be able to stop himself. Being that he could barely make it to 300ft and the sheer distance that TEN MILES is, I am going to logically assume that height came and went.
(2) He gets huge and SOMEHOW he isnt flying into the sun. I use my rays against him forcing him to be unphased with my superior maneuvering, my Ironman blows up and he dies a painful death from cardiac explosion.
(3) He gets huge and SOMEHOW he isnt flying into the sun. I use my rays against him forcing him to be unphased, and my Ironman blows up, but does not kill him. I teleport off planet (spot was once used to go into the negative dimension. To someone who has inter-dimensional powers distance is of no consequence) and go into a Spot Sphere. I proceed with this (a spot makes the blast happen from within the earth): http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?...rbingblalk1.jpg
(4) He gets huge and SOMEHOW he isnt flying into the sun. I use my rays against him and it doesnt work, I go into a Spot and teleport myself off planet (spot was once used to go into the negative dimension. To someone who has inter-dimensional powers distance is of no consequence) and go into a Spot Sphere. Bigfoot then kills the earth by simply getting large, as he would not be able to move to perform a thunderclap. I myself end up in a Spot Sphere in space. He goes to the Blue Part of the moon (somehow, lets pretend he can move here) thinking me dead. I go over and kill him in his sleep
No matter WHAT happens, guess what? I win. Him simply getting large will do NOTHING for him. I have ALWAYS been of the mind that a great defense trumps a great offense. With my spots, and me being able to get into a spot sphere you have ABSOLUTELY no way of hurting me. ESPECIALLY since at one point in your growth spurt you will not have control of your own body. You would grow into basically a overgrown vegetable.
I choose Spot for the simple reason that if used correctly his powers were the ultimate defense. And if you have the best defense in any place you can always live to fight. Being that your offense cant BREAK, or HURT my defense I can continue to come at you at any and all times. Against me your all physical offensive gamble will NOT work. Time is on MY side. Besides your planet killing, what have you to offer? Nothing. You assumed killing the earth would kill me, when in reality thanks to the armor I can go weeks just waiting around for the moment to kill you. Spots ftw!
Been just as busy with school/work. Weekend has been my only REAL free time. Sorry though.
Post #2: Bigfoot = Moonstone, Sasquatch & Yellowjacket
Every aspect of the characters body is increased while growing, as the moonstone is bonded with BF it will also increase in size and thus it's power output will increase proportionally with it's mass. It's merely a case of scaling everything up.
It most likely works in the same way as Kitty Pride's power as the similarities with her are far more apparent than any similarities with the Vision – Partial phasing & phasing of other characters to name the most obvious aspects.
Moonstone has effortlessly penetrated the security systems and defenses of the Fantastic Four without so much as triggering an alarm (until she accessed their computers)
which shows that standard preparation is not enough.
Simple? During CoC2, Iron Man spent hours and hours trying to reverse engineer those nanobots, which he then used to help his friends, in this scenario he does not have those nanobots and he certainly doesn't have hours to study his opponent.
Again, the nanites used recently took months of study/research to create (and that's WITH the extremis virus upgrading his brain) you don't have the time or resources available to make any of those feats relevant to this match.
And all those sonics did against Fing Fang Foom was annoy him into punting Iron Man through several city blocks .... not exactly a match winning strategy ... this doesn't matter though as the speed of my movement and the reduced atmosphere at altitude mean that the, relatively slow, sound waves wont be an issue.
IF it works at all you mean ... and even if it did (though I'm not saying it could) what difference does it really make? There's no way IM can hurt a character this powerful.
You can't bring in other armours as 2 spares is the limit. As for other weapons ... well accurately placing spots inside of labs thousands of miles away while engaged in a battle is simply beyond the skill level of Tony when he has had so little experience with Spot's powers.
About that, it's just never going to happen. There's no way in hell Bigfoot isn't noticing a suit of armour attempting to catch up and fly inside of him ... in fact if it managed to even get as far as the skin then Bigfoot would know it was there:
There Moonstone shows the ability to feel things while phased (not exactly sure how/why it works but it does)
I covered that in my opening post. Giant Man gets stronger slower because his strength is used to hold up his enormous mass, the moonstone/gravity stone takes that factor out of play allowing him to grow without suffering from this little side effect.
This fact basically kills the rest of your “he wont be able to move because his strength doesn't match his size” argument.
Without question? The mess of healing factors, teleporters, phasers, speedsters and other powers in the tourney actually do put that into question ... hell, has spot ever even won a fight?
No, to someone who can walk through dimensions, dimensional travel is of no consequence, distance travel within the same reality has always been another matter entirely. (as shown recently in New Avengers when Dr Strange could not teleport to Japan)
Which one? You didn't create any during your prep time and it would seem that one of these constructs would take quite a bit of time/concentration to build considering that you're trying to make a sphere out of circles ... the slightest gap in the “sphere” and it might as well not be there, energy attacks would get through, ionization would get through (caused by the destruction of the planet which would in turn mess up all your scanners) possible electromagnetic energy/pulse energy caused by the destruction of the planet would get through (even asteroid impacts can create emps, a BF thunderclap could probably do so as well)
Chances are high that any or all 3 of BW's Iron Men will be hit in my initial assault which would cause major damage, possibly resulting in complete systems failures of each of the armours.
If he survives the blasts then the planet squishing follow up will definitely take out the two remote armours and is 99% likely to kill HK, he will not have time to create a spot “sphere”, his distance teleporting is not proven to be sufficient to escape the blast radius of a planet exploding & every last piece of tech/power source he could draw on would be incinerated in the explosion.
IF he has managed to teleport off planet he will be damaged (either by the heavy blasting at the start or by the clap/explosion/shockwave) He will have extremely limited supplies (most noticeably oxygen and electricity) ... hell if the armour has only a couple of cracks in it then his personal atmosphere will only last a few seconds. He has no way to repair/resupply and has nothing on his basic armour that can harm Bigfoot in any way.
And about this:
Feel free to try it, didn't work against Red Ronin and it wont work here:
In fact, all it really seems to do is leave Iron Man completely helpless (nice scan cropping though, might have worked on a lesser geek )
So there you have it, BW's master plan is to hope I can't move while he overloads his own armour leaving him trapped and immobile ... since he's wrong about Bigfoot's movement issues he has essentially knocked himself right out of the tourney.
Thesae two obscure weapons that BW has pulled from the forgotten pages of history, the "Cosmic Gun" and that "centrifugal .. thingy". I've been reading IM comics for quite a few years and have never seen either of these items mentioned before ... do they even still exist? IM has lost a lot of facilities during attacks, business takeovers and during Heroes Reborn when he was thought to be dead most of his properties were handed over to other parties ... just something to think about.
Yes, but like I said, anti phasing created by Tony Stark would be a multi level system. He has shown the ability to handle two different types of phasers (Ghost and Vision). Moonstones phasing should prove no different.
If it does work, which logically it should, the nuke (Ironman suit self destructing) inside you should kill you dont you think?
Im not talking about armours, but about weapons. I could also activate all the satellites around the earth, and use them as weapons (if I could find the damn scan, Tony uses these satellites as powerboosters sometimes, but they are capable of firing off energy blasts: http://img113.imageshack.us/my.php?...satalitedw8.jpg
Imagine all the satellites firing at you the centrifugal force ray, and cosmic rays. With that power out put, plus using them as weapons I have more than enough to deal with you. I think I mentioned I might use the satellites, but if you want them you got them.
I could always spot to one of these bad boys (since the battlefield seems like the world and beyond) and use them http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?...b1d37d7dzy9.jpg http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?...o1d3b854zx5.jpg
I have other weapons that I could use (he has a giant armor somewhere, but eh), but with my spots I have enough protection to get whatever I want and extremely quickly. Hell I could let you destroy the world, with me extremely safe in a spot somewhere in space. Since I had my forcefield up at maximum from the start, no damage would have been taken by the armor.
It can fly under cover, and once inside your large frame what would you do? Nothing much is the answer. It will continue to follow you from the inside out until you solidify and have a heart attack from it. Or alternatively I create spots inside your body.
IN FACT: I create a spot inside your body around where your heart is. Since I have the other Ironman there I can use his camera or if need be use my own scanners to pick where that position would be. I would then close the spot after you move off a bit. Even phased/energy people have to go through the spot (like living lightning), and since you did not FULLY go through the spot you would immediately die. All that left your body was your innards (around the heart area), because your are so big your whole body would not fit into a spot. However, one spot, facilitated by your own moving, has your innards teleported somewhere else and that is going to kill you. I mean seriously think of a portal inside that massive body that only teleports Scoobs characters heart, then closes after the fact. I just won the freaking battle. Done deal my friend. Even someone of your size still needs a heart to function, and I have not used the spots offensively but this way works beautifully. Ruthless? Yes. Brilliant if you ask me. I would not have been able to do this to a smaller person, but with your large body it leaves space for me to create a spot that can do this
Yes, but you have to take into account that your muscles were designed to move your mass (which is not affected by gravity) through a given space. Because they still have to deal with the mass OF the mass, your strength would at one point not match up with your mass. Get it?
I dunno man, my spots let me redirect anything I want. Like your heart
I have freaking Tony Stark as my mind. The premier engineer in Marvel. You know him, you're a fanboy of his. Yea, just letting you know because he would make that in his sleep.
The spots would not let the energy hit me. Thats the problem with your whole set up. I make a big enough spot(s) and nothing hits me.
meh, I found it online. I could always power up my second Ironman suit. Either way its a sideline solution, since I already figured I could just spot your heart away (or even a portion of your heart).
If you notice, while Scoobs has given you all one solution (Busting the planet), while I have been throwing out ideas. This is to make your jobs easier my friends. I could have easily picked just one solution (spotting his insides to another place would be my first pick), but I thought that I should not insult your intelligence and give you many options to choose from.
But if you really want just one option, I say that I spot his innards out (any movement on his part would do this as I just create a spot INSIDE his huge body). Phased or not he cannot mess with the spot. Once that is done, I go and erase him from reality (since, you know, Ironman has the REALITY gem) I then go and erase the rule that says I cannot use reality warping in this tournament!
In all seriousness, I hope you realize that I gave you options to play with and that any one way of winning that you see go with it. If that is not the case however, and you feel I should present to you ONE and ONLY one way of winning than go with the spot to the inside of the body. I read the rules carefully and this move is allowable since it is not organic matter manipulation (closest thing that the rules come to touching upon it) and all I did was create a spot in a massive amount of space inside the body.
Hellfire king is off enjoying a virgin pina colada with Scoobless' mother when he gets an Avengers call of duty. With a passionate kiss to Scoobs mom, he goes off into a spot to help save the world.
I thought I might as well throw a jab in there. Scoobs does it all the time to me with those anti blair sigs for tournaments
Anyways I apologize (and Im sure Scoobs is with me) for a finals match that didnt have the usual intensity to it.
Thank you all for listening to me and Scoobs go on for the third time in a tourney finals match. I personally appreciate it.
Yeah, but I'm giving myself a little leeway as I didn't know the match was ending at that point as I hadn't been on to see DG's announcement ... plus I wasn't really adding in any new tactics so there's nothing BW would need to respond to.
I have to congratulate both participants of this final for getting this far, both of you have proved you are very good debaters in the past and I was very much looking forward to this. Two good amalgams, led by two good debaters (it wasn't much of a surprise to see you two against each other in a final again).
I think that HK was on the back foot from the start of this fight straight away, a lot of his points seemed like they wouldn't hold up against Bigfoot (aka the phasing thing, I couldn't see Stark successfully using either of those gadgets to harm him and the sonics wouldn't work as Big foot's character was too large. The inertia thing was smart on Blair's part, but as Scoob pointed out Big foot's strength wouldn't be hindered by it because of his control of gravity via the moonstones.
I think it could have been a great match, but real life comes first to be honest, it stalled a match I was really looking forward to if I'm being honest.
In the end, Blair's offensive was really lacking in the brute firepower it would need to put Bigfoot down and never really showed anyway to breach his defences. Scoob on the other hand had a very convincing defense and his offensive was simple and effective, so.. therefore I cast my vote to:
Well played gentlemen, well done to the both of you .
As stated in other matches I've judged, I'm not one for essays.... So this will be short, sweet, and to the point...
You came up with some very good tactics here, such as the already mentioned "inertia move", but I felt as though your offense left something to be desired against Bigfoot. It seemed like the sheer damage you'd need to put Scoobs amalgam down, just wasn't there.
Your plans/strategies seemed better rounded. You had the total package as far as this match went, [ie. a good offense/defense, and you knew exactly what your amalgam could do, and how it could help you here].
My vote goes to Scoobles.
Great job to the both of you, and congratulations for getting here!
"A great tactician creates plans.
A good tactician recognizes the soundness of a plan presented to him.
A fair tactician must see the plan succeed before offering approval.
Those with no tactical ability at all may never understand or accept the plan.
And when a mind is too deficient in understanding, the resulting gap is often filled with resentment."