This is the second Battle Zone fight. I will also ask nonparticipants to also with hold from posting until its over with. This is a nonofficial standard match here with nverbeenwthagirl representing Darkseid and I will be representing Thanos. Here are some of the stipulations with regards to our debate....
Nverbeenwthagirl is allowed to use Darkseid appearances up until Seven Soldiers. That is the cutoff point. there are no future showing allowed for Darkseid except Foundations. With regards to Foundations nverbeenwthagirl can reference anything the younger Darkseid did in that story. GDS is out.
We will not be using any crossovers in this debate whatsoever.
I can use any Thanos appearances that are canon to his character. No future stuff with Thanos as well.
We both are not allowed to use any showings that are just plain ridiculous. This may include the following:
1.Slipping in the grass
2.Getting arrested
3.Punks beating down a god
4.Off panel losses(the battles in which these characters lose but must occur on panel,if the battle takes place off panel and just the victor is show it has no place here.
5.Falling down a couple of steps.
To sum all this up we are discounting their ridiculous moments.
With regards to the previous debate this one is pretty much a standard win or loss here. The judges will be deciding on who wins a simple majority. That's all. There are no stalemates either.
The debate will begin Saturday AM and end at the stroke of midnight on Monday evening.
The loser wont be able to post in the comic book vs section from Tuesday morning on for one month. Meaning that he wont be able to respond to anything that is being said about the debate and will have to just simply wait. Now that is punishment.
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It Should be noted That Great Darkness Saga Older DS is out and Everything Up until the End of Firestorm is being used. Becuz Firestorm Cannonizes Seven Soldiers.
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OK for my Opening Statement, I will not be talking about how powerful Darkseid is. For we Already know that Darksied is. Instead, I will focus upon His defeats and how rediculous they truly are. The first is
So I guess you are wondering why I'm Posting these scans of the New Gods in Giant form?
Well for one, When beings enter the 4th world with no tech, and "defeat" a being of the 4th world at the same size, then the story conflicts with the established rule of thumb. Thus lessoning the validation of the feat. Also please note that Earth Angel Supergirl was far above Herald lvl. She was able to beat Despero and even in her smaller size, She was able to beat all the other new Gods with ease. They couldn't even Dmg her. DS KO's her with one hit.
So how in the World does Superman defeat a being who's actually 400 feet tall?
Well I know that Superman is going to get brought up, So I'm going to just post some scans of the power of this "herald" lvl being called Superman. In actuality, Superman has done feats that No mere Herald lvl being should be capable of. As has THor. It's called the Jobber aura of having your own book lol. Anyway, Let's look at Superman's Power.
Here we have Superman at a weakened state power up an engine that moves a planet 16 times the size of earth. With his heat vision. I'm sure heat vision will be brought up later, so I'm bringing it up now. And this was him while he was weakened.
Please note that Superman's Heat vision has Also One Shotted the JLA/JSA bashing villian Despero.
Now as for Durability, Let's look at how hard it would be to pwn Superman Physically in combat. We all know that DS is an idiot with Superman as he likes to fight Superman in the mano y mono style. Look how much power Superman was able to survive with his durability. A freaking POWERED up Sun eater that had been eating stars for ever had blown up point blank in Superman's face. http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/...080012pm3uo.jpg
I could post more on Superman and I shall if I need to, but you all get the point. Superman is non static Herald lvl beings. At times his power and durability go to trans lvls and even into the ludicris low skyfather lvl. So we must rule out any defeats that Superman may have taken against DS and weight them against the over whelming majority of things like this happening :
I have to go to the gym, but in the first part of Explaining Why DS beats Thanos, I have shown that his losses really are just bad writing, or have been retconned or at the hands of Superman who has easily accomplished things that only trans and Sky father lvl beings should be doing. I will be back in an hour to post some of DS displays of great power. Quan can present his case.
Superman can and has shot up in power but it was mainly due to plot device or what not. If superman gets a sunamp and gets very angry he gets more powerful. But he is still a top tier as is Thor but both are capable of amping themselves up so to speak within a story. I will show you later how Superman has pwned Darkseid with no plot device or amping of any kind. Darkseid really has no business losing to Superman anyways as he trumps in the overall power card. This shows you he can lose on the physical plane as well. Just because Darkseid is considered skyfather level doesnt mean he beats anyone. Each skyfather is different than one another and we must look at each skyfather's wins and losses to determine how powerful they really are.
Also this oneshot of Superman that you just showed only proves that Darkseid needed to cheapshot him after Supes saved him from the Source Wall. I will post these in my next post. I will fully explain the whole story here as well as nverbeenwthagirl has left some important details out about this oneshot.
I wanted to show you all what happened prior to this supposed oneshot. Notice how Darkseid was saved by the very man who put him there. They were in the middle of a conversation and Darkseid just punched him right into the Source Wall. Darkseid knocked him back is all because Superman wasnt expecting it and anyways it wouldnt be a true oneshot because Superman was right next to the Source Wall. Imagine talking to someone near a cliff and in the middle of the conversation he blasts you and you fall off it. Now if the cliff wasnt there would the person have died or been oneshotted? No just as here it is only a cheapshot right into the Source Wall because Supes just pulled him out of it.
Darkseid also cheapshotted supergirl. She wasnt suspecting it and was blasted when she had no warning what was happening. In this fight Darkseid isnt going to cheapshot Thanos. Both are aware of each other so really both of these cheapshots add little if anything in Darkseid's favor.
To me this shows how weary Darkseid is of Superman that he would have to cheapshot an unsuspecting Superman into the Source Wall to gain the advantage here.
ALSO NOTE IN MY FIRST POST I SCREWED UP BREAKING DOWN THE QUOTES. BEAR WITH ME AND READ THE WHOLE POST AS A LOT OF WHAT I SAID WAS MIXED IN WITH NVER'S QUOTE. FROM NOW ON I WILL BE RESPONDING AFTER THE ENTIRE QUOTE IN FULL BUT BREAKING IT DOWN.
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OK Quan Before I get to posting my scans of DS power, Let's note that that Superman has some of the fastest reaction times in comics history. If you look at the scan, it clearly shows Blur lines drawn into DS hands. Showing that he actually just speed blitzed superman before he had time to react. We also know that DS One shotted Superman and Superman was UNCONCIOUS. That is right folks, DS did in one hit, what no one else in the history of Superman has done. Knocked him out in one fell swoop.
Ok since nverbeenwthagirl has brought up the Superman Batman angle i will fully explain what happened prior to Darkseids cheapshot.
These scans right here demonstrate Batmans brilliant thinking when pitted against Darkseid and shows that he can be out thought and even on his own planet against a few characters with a whole planet backing him up. The goal here was to bring back Supergirl home alive and safe. I think they accomplished their goal here.
What happens next we later found out was another ploy basically by Batman and Darkseid baiting Darkseid into attacking Superman here. Basically he was out thought twice in this overall story and in these scans beaten down physically as well. He lost all across the board here and this also further demonstrated that Darkseid can and has been beaten physically. Also note that Darkseid wasnt the 400 foot monster that nver describes him as.
At the beginning of this fight Darkseid comes out of nowhere. No warning just a cheapshot to start this fight.
I also want the judges here to pay attention to this crucial point here. We have just seen Darkseid and Superman now get put into the Sourcewall by one another. Superman took Darkseid's beaten body across the known universe and accomplished it. After Superman saved Darkseid and pulled him from the wall Darkseid just seized the opportunity to strike on an unsuspecting Superman who was right next to the Sourcewall. Note the differences here please.
Mantis Emmits anti-Matter thru his hands. In DC, Antimatter is the be all end all of matter. When it touches matter, it destroys it instantly. It's liken to entropy. They cannot exist together. All it does it makes The IM howl. So if Any one thinks Thanos' vaunted Durability is saving him from a nice Omega blast, WRONG. OE>>>Antimatter
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I want everyone to note that Superman was angry and that he barely made a dent in DS. Not even a dent. He got pimp smacked back and the only reason he got the upper hand at all is becuz THe Omega beams SEVERLY injured DS. giving Superman time for a sun amp. So Superman gets a power up while DS gets injured with one of his own most powerful blast.
That would be like me getting a blast of Adrenaline thru a shot while I beat mike tyson who just happened to punch thru a glass wall. Am I really supposed to beat Mike tyson? Makes you wonder doesn't it folks.
This is how you interpret it. But the fact remains he hit an unsuspecting Superman here. You admitted it even in your own interpretation that Darkseid in your mind hit Superman before he could react. Makes sense in a way becuase just previously they battled and Darkseid failed. He needed this cheapshot to give him an edge. Not everyday that your back is right up against the Sourcewall. Ds took full advantage. Also please prove that Superman was unconscious. Even if he was I think everyone knows that a cheapshot packs more of a whallop than a regular punch with someone's guard up.
Whose fault is it that Darkseid got blasted with his own omega beams? His own. He tried it and it failed and he suffered the cost of it. That is it plain and simple. If superman's heat vision gets deflected back into him and hurts him do we say oh well Superman's own attack wasnt used against him this isnt fair. Bottom line is Ds used his omega attack and it backfired. His fault and no one elses.
With regards to the sun amp. Let me explain it to you. The sun wasnt near them as they fought. Remember how DS used the Sourcewall to his advantage earlier. Here is how these two instances are completely different. Ds benefited from Superman saving him and putting his guard down. He didnt take Superman to the Sourcewall. Superman took Ds and himself to the sun. He amped himself and wasnt in the right place at the right time as Darkseid was. Superman took Darkseid across the galaxy. Why didnt Darkseid stop him? The reason was he couldnt. Bottom line.
I will show you at a later time Superman defeating Darkseid and beating the omega effect yet again. Darkseid was set up and came in there with no real plan save that he wanted revenge on Superman. Shows how easily and how quickly he just rushed into things here without really planning it out.
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I want to call The forum's attention to Just how powerful DS is when fully powered.
First Example is How the CURRENT DS ( Who is slated to die soon so every thing that he's experienced in HIS past has already happened) was able to defeat a being of great power in a future that doesn't exist to the current timeline but does exist and is cannon to him.
Now the forum has already established that All DS are the same. He experiences them all since chronal changes to do not effect his CURRENT form. Now this is where you have to put your thinking caps on kids and let it sink in.
In Great Darkness Saga, A being of great and unimaginable power who no longer exist due to a change in time AND can't be used for current DS becuz of it being a future did all of this:
During GDS, a being of great and unimaginable power proved capable of teleporting Apokolips and Daxam at once, holding them literally in his mind as they're switching locations and galaxies, and mind-controlling 3 billion Daxamites:
Also, after the Orion fight, a being of great and unimaginable power defeated a powered-up Pre-Crisis Superboy and was about to defeat a powered-up Pre-Crisis Supergirl, while holding back, so as to not exert so much energy that he lost his control of the Daxamites, as he tells Kara ("I have not the strength to waste on such as you"), before it's interrupted by the combined Legion of Super-Heroes simultaneously blasting him, which he shrugs off:
I know you are wondering what exactly is my point. My point is that the Older DS in that story Does not exist as DS becuz the timeline doesn't exist AND it's in the future. But the story did happen to current DS. He did experience it. So it's in HIS past. So he did defeat some being who was that powerful. It matters not that it was some alternate version of himself. Becuz that guy doesn't exist. What matters is that this being was able to accomplish so much and yet this is what Happened to him:
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It's already been established that Superman has the ability to perform skyfather lvl task. But I have posted scans of DS defeating beings superior to Superman as well as pimp handing Superman and Wonder woman with ease.
I am rather confused by this. In your initial post you say that Superman is trumping being he has no business trumping. But here you are making the claim that Infinity Man is superior to Superman. Then you say that Darkseid is more powerful than him. I dont understand why you would use this abc logic here when we have Darkseid and Superman in the same universe. They have fought how many times? More than just a few but you try to make the claim that Darkseid>Infinity Man>Superman. It isnt needed and fails here. ABC logic isnt needed when we have the two character meaning Darkseid and Superman clashing head on.
Again the omega blast and comparing it to the antimatter doesnt make sense to me. Name me the most powerful being the omega beams have outright taken out? Show me scans to back up this claim here. I will address later why i feel the omega effect isnt as powerful as it was back in the day with Darkseid. We have already seen Wonderwoman's bracelets outright deflect them into Darkseid's face.
I will go into greater detail at a later time on the omega effect.
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Oct 5th, 2007 07:31 PM
