The first match will be in an open areana with each combant only given a knife. Logan's healing factor will be stripped for the match. Each opponet will be given three months to get familar with the weapon and current status. Wolverine will be unable to use his claws and is also with out the aid of his adamatium.
The second match is in a jungle that spreads 500 years apart and each will be set on one end. They will only be given a machine gun. Wolverine has his healing factor and adamatium stripped. They get 3 months off time to get use to there current status and weapon.
There final match will be another open areana match. This match Wolverines powers will not be stripped. Punisher has a assualt riftle with 4 clips, hand gun with two clips and a rocket luancher with two missles and a knife. start 100 feat apart.
1. very tough match...I'd give a slight advantage to Frank because
a) Logan isn't used to fighting without claws
b) Logan is used to being reckless, which ain't a good thing without a HF saving your ass
c) Frank has longer reach (being over 6 feet compared to the midget that Logan is)
so Punisher 6/10
2. Wolverine 8/10 - he can smell Frank and know exactly where Frank is but Punisher will have trouble tracking Logan
Interesting. Nice input. I am not saying your wrong, but here some information that you likly do not possess of Wolverine. Logan was fighting with out the knowledge of his claws for decades. he has fought with out the use of his claws for as long if not longer then he has with them Logan did not start really using his claws untill after the weapon x program. Which means he was fighting with out them since WW1 till then for the most part. Logan relied on weapons like swords and knifes which he favor. Knifes were the weapon he fought with most through out the many war's he fought.
As for the HF, he was given three months to cope with the changes which is more then enough time to adapted. Logan has done soo with far less time in the past.
Frank is very reckless individual as well.
Now for the hieght advantage. Punisher though is taller and longer reach also is a larger target, and worse centure of gravity.
Logan being smaller grant makes him harder to hit, it also gives him a great centure of balance. Also He is trained and master of numerous martial arts which allows him to overcome any reach advantage. He also has villains such as Ogun, silver samuria, Lady death strike ect. who all have a massive reach advantage and it never has been a problem for him, becuases like any good martial artiest he has trained to overcome such difficulties.
Castle 7/10. for a simple reason that he's more experienced with knives and has used them on many, many occassions. he even beat bullseye in a knife fight.
however, we can't forget that before wolverine knew he was a mutant he was an expert knife fighter himself.
i'm leaning towards castle since he's more focused, less reckless and has longer arm reach. oh and he also has the size advantage.
hmmm...i think punisher is better at guirella warfare. he has experience in nam, and has also fought in many jungles against enemies. he even took out a mafia stronghold with weapons made out of bearbones and teeth.
Logan is also an expert and his enhanced senses will be a great help. however, he's too reckless. i doubt his habits of being reckless will stop just cuz one day he can't use his HF and adamantium.
there was a wolverine/punisher crossover where they both were supposed to escape from some badguys in a jungle. wolverine got caught cuz of his recklessness but frank managed to save logan AND kill all the guys.
based on this, i'm sticking with Frank. but i'm open to opinions.
Punisher 5.5/10.
open arena? wolverine 10/10
we all know that frank can't beat logan in a straight up fight. the only we he's done it is by outsmarting him, or by using guirella warfare.
Wrong. Logan primary weapon was Knifes all the way up to the Weapon x project. Meaning Logan has more years knife fighting then Punishers been alive.
How he more focus? Seam’s odd to say when one of wolverines most study MA structures around focus.
How Punisher less reckless? You keep saying reckless as if it an argument, but really just seems more of a cop out to me.
Question why would you mention arm length and size advantage as separate things? I mean the only real advantage of size for Punisher would be longer reach. Logans a master martial artiest who knows the in and outs of reach and as trained to overcome this advantage. Also Logan faces the likes of silver samuria, ogun, dady deathstrike ect. All of which have reach advantage.
Why is he better are guerilla tactics? A reason would be nice.
Experience in nam is good. Wolverine also has that, plus korea, plus ww1 and 2 ect. So I don’t see experiences being any advantage to Punisher, it be more of a disadvantage if anything.
Logan took a pantaloon out with a knife.
He has 3 months to get use to the difference.
Also he done quite fine when his healing factor has been taken from him.
Also he lived his live without the knowledge of a healing factor longer then Punisher has been walking this earth.
So reckless is really not a good argument.
By save Logan you mean he was stuck in a house surrounded by people trying to kill him as wolverine freed him self
Also again an awful arc. Which both wolverine and Punishers abilities were placed down very badly.
Punisher had trouble with 20 unskilled men……..
Not the best issue to uses as evidences of either mens abilities.
Well not saying your opinion is wrong, but just correcting the few mistakes you made about Wolverine. Which I am assuming you don’t read.
battlehammer, calm down and learn to read. i said this:
stop being such a baby
and yet he is iconic for his bad temper and reckless nature. oh and i almost forget berserker rage. and stop playing the MA card. we all know that you can spend 20 years of your life learning MA and still brawl when the time comes to fight. Steve Rogers on the other hand IS focused.
also logan hasn't used a knife for a long time. a few decades to be precise.
arm length and size are the same thing?
get real man. is said size because size matters in a fight. one of them is a 5''3 pieceofshit and the other guy is heavy set 6"4 guy. and not to mention logan is the storky type with short arms and legs. also if logan has faced those guys (with his claws and healing factor and not a damn knife which is what this thread is about) i only need to bring up frank beating the likes of Bullseye IN A KNIFE fight.
they keyword was "guirella warfare". you don't fight guirella warfare on open land or at sea or at the beach.
that's a real feat. bet it took a lot out of him too
so does frank. and the last time we saw, frank took him out with rocket launcher after preperation. he's also downed him without preperation. twice.
like when his eye grew right back and he was too dumb to figure out that it wasn't normal. and without knowledge doesn't mean that he didn't rely on it. you're not even making any sense.
Match 1: Toss up. Punisher is a better knife fighter and has been training with them alot nowadays and Logan might be out of practice. Now Logan finds a way to disarm Frank and get it down to H2H Logan should win every time. He's on another level when it comes to martial arts.
Match 2: Punisher for the simple fact that he's better with guns, guerilla warfare, and Logan might still be reckless and thinks he's a bullet resistant magnet. He might have 3 months but he will follow his intincts.
Match 3: Typical Wolverine vs Punisher fight. Wolverine win almost every time unless Punisher has prep.
Pleases explain to me how I missed up you said? Were in my responses did I hint that I miss read what you had typed?
You said this which I quoted
And responded with this
No were in this responses do I show that I miss read a single word of your responses, but that’s for the piety insult.
The pot calling the kettle black.
I was trying to simply inform you and you attack me. Then you have the nerve to call me the baby, when I was clearly not upset in the least, but you on the other hand are showing that maybe you need to chill out and calm your self.
It a forum, not the end of the world sport.
Your not very up to date on Wolverine are you?
Because Logan average portayial has not been such in decades, he actually extremely calm combatant. He does not lose his temper in battle and he not that reckless and even less so when his healing factor has been taken from him.
Punisher is not any more calm or less reckless then Logan.
Yup now I know you don’t read Wolverine. Wolverine has gone Berserker less then 10 times in the last decade maybe even fewer times. You clearly basing your knowledge of the character off the media and not actual comic knowledge that you have read of his series.
Not the best way to debate. Having such out dated inaccurate knowledge can really hurt your arguments.
Also if Logan went berserker, that would be the very last thing Punisher would wan’t.
Also in Wolverine volume 2 issues 31 to 33 further explains Logan physical abilities while berserker, they are boosted to there top levels. Berserker is as if Wolverine took the thunder bolt pill. The thunder bolt pill if given to a normal human amplifies all there physical attributes to superhuman levels.
So Punisher really does not want Wolverine to go berserker.
I not sure what your definition of brawl is, but to brawl means “a noisy quarrel, squabble, or fight.”
So I am not sure what you are getting at. I mean it is common senses that someone who spent 20 years learning MA can fight.
Also why would I not use the fact Logan a MA fighter? He is one and one of the best. You don’t see me telling you not to use the Punisher was in Vietnam card, because it as stupid as you tell me not to use MA card. Why should a characters skill or attribute be ignored? Is it due to the fact you have no real argument against it?
You keep saying focus as if that an argument. It stupid argument and plan foolishness to say a character is not focused when you have little knowledge of the character. Not to mention the fact that the Martial art style that has been most influential in his life and which he has been imbued into his core being, teaches focus as well as control as one of it fundamental teachings.
Steve is no more focused then Wolverine is.
Here are some Martial Art feats to assure you he a top tier Martial Artiest.
Wolverine agent of shield Part 4 of 6 issue 29: Wolverine attacks the hand ninja’s secret base and training facility which has roughly 15,000 hand ninjas. Logan shows amazing skill and never even takes a single hit.
X-Men Phoenix WarSong issue 1: Logan shows his mastery over the Bo staff while training Phoebe how to fight.
Wolverine origins issue 19: Bucky pulls a gun on Wolverine and plans to shoot him in cold blood. Logan is able to disarm Bucky with out being shot and puts him in a choke old displaying his grappling prowess. Bucky is soon Koed. Bucky had been trained by Captain America him self, as well as the same individuals who had trained Captain America. Bucky is one of the best back then and now, Logan states that he himself is “still better”.
Guest-Starring Wolverine justice, Like Lightning… New Thunderbolts Enemy Of The State Tie-In issue 4: Wolverine while under mind controlled by Hydra fights with the New Swordsman. Wolverine out fights New swordsman to the point were even New Swordsman states he can not hold of Logan much longer and that was only after a few short panels.
X-Men 97 hellfire Hong Kong guest –starring Shang-chi master of king-fu issue 97: Wolverine defeats Shan-chi in h2h combat rather easily showing Logan as the superior martial artist. It only takes Logan 5 panels to accomplish this.
Death Blow and Wolverine issue 2 which happen after Logan was part of the x-men and had adamatium claws.
Logan not using knifes in a long time would not take away his 50 plus years of experiences using them as one of his primary weapons. Three month’s would plenty of time to readjust him to the way in which one knife fights.
Also Punisher though may uses knifes, does not very often rely on them. He uses guns much more then a knife. Wolverine claws and how they are used would be very closely linked with knife fighting as would Logan’s constant training with swords.
Also Logan was also using knifes as his primary weapon during “Logan shadow society” one shot issue in which he works with Carol Danvers.
He also was picked for certain missions for the CIA due to his skills with knifes as shown in the “Weapon X” Novel
In this match Punisher size other then giving him an arm, leg reach advantage holds no other advantages.
Saying “5’3 pieceofshit” does not really make one view your opinion favorably.
Punisher can be as “heavy set” as he wishes, it not am advantage when your opponent is stronger. Also Punisher is not 6”4, he 6”1 and he only 5 pounds heavier then Wolverine.
You missed the point. Those characters like most of his rogue gallery have a good size reach advantage when they face Wolverine, but that has never been a factor or even shown to matter in fight against Wolverine. So the odds are very slim that it would be any factor in such a fight as this when Logan a top tier MA has clearly found ways to negate such advantages.
By knife fight you must mean getting stab then pulling it out, because here the only knife part in the entire fight in which Punisher or Bullseye hold a knife. http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?...sstabbedli7.jpg
You really need to stop miss representing events.
“The tactics of guerrilla warfare stress deception and ambush, as opposed to mass confrontation, and succeed best in an irregular, rugged, terrain and with a sympathetic populace, whom guerrillas often seek to win over by propaganda, reform, and terrorism”
It can be fought anywhere and was used in WW2.
Also Logan would still have the advantage since he has fought in both Korea and Vietnam, while Punisher only fought in Vietnam.
Also Logan has trained extensively as Ninja and as a number of Special Forces units that focus on ambushing.
Yes frank does.
Frank does not get prep in this match up so it irrelevant.
Not to mention the issue ignored Logan’s, Matt’s and Peter’s powers and won’t be happing in this encounter. Also Logan was not knocked out and was still standing, so Punisher did not take out anything.
Sorry, but shooting your fellow teammate unaware and running him over with a steam roller does not count as a win.
Your response has nothing to do with what you had quoted.
Not at all. If you read wolverine regularlly you know this. He can and is a very calm combatant, he does not simply fly off the handle as soon as a fight beggins. Hell this was shown in his current run with DP. It took DP all day before he was able to get Logan mad enough to actually fight to kill him.
sorry, but if you can take machine gun fire and rockets it far from reckless to allow one self to be hit by them.
Thats like saying supermans reckless to let bullets hit him.
unlike superman, Logan's HF is taxed by injuries...so the more it has to work, the weaker he gets. So it is reckless to jump into machine gun fire if he could avoid it.
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Feb 27th, 2008 12:20 AM
