My 7 year old nephew saw wrestling where the undertaker beat mark henry and big daddy V at the same time.. He then watched iron eagle where a kid flew a fighter jet and beat grown skilled pilots in a dogfight.. He then saw rambo kill over 100 enemy soldiers by himself... Then he watched 007 escape traps over and over again...... He turned off the TV and asked his 12 year old brother how did all of those amazing things happen???..... His 12 year old brother told him......All of those amazing things happened because they were scripted and planned from the beginning by writers to please peoples...... The 7 year old then asked what would really happen if they were real??..... His brother replied.... All of them would have been killed in the first 5 minutes..........He then opened his comic book and asked his older brother could any hulk beat Gladiator???.... His brother told him that the only way any hulk would win is if the writers LET hulk win, but power set against power set, Gladiator would have hundreds of ways to win...Gladiator wins every single time...Kind of like how superman would too.
Cute! But the Hulk isn't a one trick pony as many people attempt to make him out to be, he continues to change in combat, and it wouldn't take an incredibly long time for Gladiators punches to become useless to him. Yes Gladiator can fly at light speed but so can the Sentry, look haow far that got him. Gladiator lost to a weaker Hulk, Marstro would stomp the hell out of him like he did when he was younger.
Yup, the analogy was cute. However he did have some very salient points.
Furthermore, while the Sentry can fly very fast, and has a host of powers, his fight against WWH was basically quite 'interesting.' For the most part they were just trading blows.
Ask yourself this ....if you were the Sentry, and you were fighting WWH, would you fight the way Sentry did?
Most people (if they are honest) would not. Why? Because it would be stupid.
In a KMC fight any multi or omni dimensional character (e.g. Gladiator, Superman, Silver Surfer, FireStorm, Sentry, etc) will not go and trade punches with a uni-dimensional character (e.g. Hulk, Juggernaut, A-Bomb) .....and this is not PRIMARILY because they might lose (although there are risk factors involved), but primarily because it is STUPID.
It would be like me having a stapler, and you having a handgun (with bullets, and you being a great shot) .....and instead of shooting me you decide to come in close and try to pistol whip me.
Even if you might win, it would still be dumber than a frog steaming up in a hot kettle!
A writer can show the Flash being defeated by Gorilla Grodd (I am sure that has happened even). The Hulk can be written as being defeated by Jubilee. Next month you might see Thanos get handed his @$$ by Kitty Pryde. All of those could happen.
But powerset against powerset, it should not. With all parties concerned going all out it just becomes impossible.
Once again I ask, if YOU were Sentry, and you are facing WWH ....would you fight the way Sentry did? Or might you just (just) decide to use all the other faculties under your control?
Same with the Glad vs Hulk (or Supes vs Hulk).
Imagine you are the Hulk: You know there is Superman/Glad/Sentry around, but he is moving around so fast that you cannot even SEE him. That means one thing (without me having to add more to this).....you CANNOT win. It is not whether or not he can beat you, it is the fact that you cannot beat HIM. You cannot see the character, touch the character, punch the character. People like using the X/10 scale ....well, in this case it is 'You will not win 10/10.'
Whether you lose or not is another debate, but you cannot win.
Imagine you are Sentry/Glad/Superman: You are facing the Hulk, but everything he does is in super slow motion. He tries to punch and you might as well have gone to China and come back in that time frame. You are literally all around him at the same time due to your speed. You can punch the guy a multitude of times in the space it takes for him to throw one punch to you. You can heat him up with heat vision, chill him with ice breath, blur his vision with debris from hurricane force winds. Or you can simply over-saturate him with a multitude of blows from a near 360-degree arc. And in all this if he tries to punch it is as if he is moving in slow motion.
Again, in this case there is no need to debate whether or not you would win. The thing is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to lose. The X/10 scale in this case is that '10/10 you will not lose.'
sane and well thought out post.
but there are reasons why in specific instances this would not work, and Hulk is the definitive exception.
Hulk can, and does, leap at speeds great enough to capture FTL level characters, he has done this since way back and Surfer and Jack of Hearts are but 2 of his most prestigious 'victims'. he can and does +punch+ with force great enough to tear dimensional barriers (the Timestream) and he has a paranormal precision to his aim and can calculate velocities instantly in order to utilise any projectile to down an airborne opponent. given the kinds of force he can exert, there's no way to remain within the battlefield and distant from Hulk's reach. so inevitably it comes down to attempting to subdue him rather than evasion.
now this is where the omni-directional attacks should be of most advantage except, Hulk can heal from anything (his torso getting ripped through TWICE mid-fight, by Zom/Strange) without letting up on his attacks or even weakening in the slightest. this makes it next to impossible to down him, when he is sufficiently focussed on a fight, and for Forums battles that would be a given.
he also has a truly inexhaustible supply of power, which only increases the force of his attacks, the strength of his body and the resilience of his system to fatigues and injury. it's not smart for the opponent to hang back and attempt to pick Hulk off, it will inevitably lead to a stronger, faster, harder, madder Hulk. so they will have to come in close and attempt to leverage whatever temporary physical advantage they might have (or in the case of the Surfer, gamma siphon Hulk down to more manageable levels).
and we haven't even started upon Hulk's ability to physically grab, twist, repulse and rend +energy+ (ie heat, light, electricity etc) ... which again usually comes into play when he's really under stress. nor have we begun to acknowledge how much of an "omni-directional" attack Hulk possesses in his Thunderclaps, in his continent shaking steps, in his stomps (which can be felt across states!) or (and this is most interesting) in his direct emission of Gamma energy as some kind of force capable of affecting everything within a continent's span and potentially capable of destroying the world within minutes.
I think that The Hulk is a reasonable exception to your argument, but I have thought along the lines you state before and they are, as I said at the start, well reasoned.
Hulks power set does not allow him to hit FTL foes.. The writers allow him to do it.... Spiderman can dance and dodge hulk all day, Hulk cannot track spiderman down because without the writers help his powerset does not allow him to be able to....Gladiators powerset allows him to track spiderman lock-on to him and then outspeed him and kill him with one high speed punch.... There is a BIG difference between what the writers allow and what your power set allows.
you're quite wrong but right now's not the time to get into this.
just think on how Hulk delivers a punch that breaks a dimensional barrier. force, velocity, speed ... and no, saying "the writers decide, not the powerset" is not an answer merely tautology, this is comic fiction, of course the writers decide and the writers extend and modify 'powersets' so there's not even a stable basis for that either (remember how superman started out).
the writers have depicted Hulk utilising that infinite power source more freely, moving fast enough to jump onto Surfer's board, or leaping fast enough to catch Jack of Hearts who then notes Hulk's phenomenal speed.
speed translates into force and force translates into speed, muscles, mass, energy ... it's all interconnected and interdependent.
True.... But tell me this.... IF hulk,gladiator,superman,silversurfer,supreme,wonde
r woman,kid flash,hyperion and aunt may raced 1000 miles and the beyonder had to kill the 2 that cross the finish line in the 8th and 9th place.... which 2 would die?
You must be talking about the gladiator that dare devil fights because the imperial guard one would not even have to engage any hulk...... orbit punch all day long or do what current superman does to hulk everytime they meet...but unlike supes, gladiator will send hulk into space instead of feeling sorry for him and only koing him.
KMC Community Forums
Oct 14th, 2005 01:48 PM
