I have to say I totally agree with Sam. Venom as a character is extremely weak. His popularity stems from the cool look, and the fact that he is simply a villain with Spidey's powers.
Scratch the surface and there's nothing much beneath. Even in terms of being a villain he has accomplished nothing substantial against Spidey. He's so weak that they had to produce a bunch of rip off symbiote characters to try and keep the whole concept fresh.
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Last edited by Doc Ock on Dec 19th, 2008 at 03:02 PM
I don't like Venom due to his 'cool look' I like him because I think he is a good villain and I find his stories to be very interesting.....when it was Eddie. So saying that he is liked due to his look isn't entirely true.
That's rather harsh. The first two Spider-Man movies are extremely popular. I hardly think one bad movie ruins the whole franchise. The James Bond franchise has had a few terrible movies, but they didn't kill the franchise. They can bounce back by making Spider-Man 4 good.
And I think Raimi is correct. Venom is a weak character. He has no depth or substance. He's just a glorified stalker with a chip on his shoulder. Can't blame him for not wanting to use Venom in his movies.
And since Raimi is helming Spider-Man 4, I think it's safe to say we wont see a whiff of any symbiote related characters. Thank god.
This is what makes the rivalry interesting. This what attracted me to Venom in the first place. Part of it is because he looked cool, why would anyone like a villian that didn't look appealing? However, the fact he can play at Spidey's own game is what makes the whole concept of Venom interesting. Plus, I think with Green Goby and Doc Ock around, we have enough mad scientists.
Gobby and Ock have played Spidey at his own game. And they've done it better than Venom. They've infiltrated his life, hurt and killed people he cares about, more than able to match him in a battle.
Gobby has done worse than Ock, the only person Ock killed who Peter cared about was captain Stacy and that wasn't even on purpose...Gobby killed Gwen on purpose. Ock hasn't done anything to ruin Pete's life one bit. Ock's a good character but's not as evil as Gobby. The only possinle reason for you putting Ock next to Gobby is because your an Ock fanboy or something. Not to mention that Gobby is also the reason why Pete and MJ's baby died. Whats Ock done? He's kidnapped Aunt May once or twice, killed captain stacy (by accident) and he neally married Aunt May....thats it! Venom could kick Ocks ass anyday, I dunno if you've read any of the venom story lines but there have been many times where Venom has KO'd spidey and he is able to match spidey in battle, Venom doesn't trigger spideys spider sense which makes him even more dangerous.
That's not the point at all. The fact is that Ock was such a danger to the public that Spidey had to resort to such drastic measures to stop him, and it resulted in the death of someone he cared about.
Intentional or not, Ock was responsible for the death of Captain Stacy because he's THAT dangerous.
Infiltrated Peter's life thru May, trashed the Parker home and caused May to have a stroke, beat Black Cat to near death and put her in such critical condition that she needed open heart surgery, killed Captain Stacy.
Bull s***. Ock is every bit as evil as Gobby. Maybe even moreso. Goblin has never tried to kill an entire city just because he can. Ock has.
The only reason Norman has screwed with Peter's life more is because he learned Spidey's secret identity. Ock doesn't have that benefit, and he's still managed to really screw with Peter's life. That's extremely impressive for a villain who doesn't know his enemy's true identity.
What has Venom done, other than stalk and fight Spidey? Diddly squat. And he knows who Spidey really is, too. Pathetic.
No, it's because I recognize class when I see it. And so does Sam Raimi. That's why he and Sony gave Goblin and Ock a movie each to themselves as the solo villains. They deserve it. They're THAT good.
Oh big deal, he can match Spidey in a fight. 90% of the Spider-Man villains can do that.
Heck Morlun KILLED Spider-Man and ate his eyeball. Does that mean Morlun is the number one villain? Of course not.
Hahahaha, please! Ock kicked the Hulk's ass once. And he's Bruce Banner. He's super smart. Ock once held off the entire Sinister Six by himself while smoking a cigarette.
I have scans of all this if you'd like to see them.
With a half wit like Brock, Ock could probably convince him to kill himself.
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Last edited by Doc Ock on Dec 19th, 2008 at 10:55 PM
Ock beating Hulk is pure BS, sure he beat Hulk but that was lamest thing ever, hulk could easily beat Ock that fight was just pure PIS. Hulks taken craps that could ock. Morlun killed spider-man which something ock seems to have failed to do, please do tell me when has ock killed spidey? Oh wait he hasn't. The only reason Ock doesn't know spidey's identity is because he's too stupid to even try and work it out, Norman was able to successfully find out spidey's identity by using his brain which is something ock might wanna try sometime. I remember Ock also needing spidey's help so that he could protect himself from the sinister six. Yes 90% of the villains match spiderman in a fight and yet you say how norman and Ock can do it and don't even think to mention that 90%! Since your going to use the whole 'ock beat hulk' thing why don't I use the fact that venom held is own against superman and spider-man Norman has more evil in his pinky than Ock does in his entire body. And if I remember correctly Ock got pwned by aunt may in the spider-man 2 movie.
If it had been venom on his own and had been done right it woulda made for a better storyline. Plus no.3 gained more money due to the fact that Venom was in that movie.
Don't throw a temper tantrum because the comic book writers don't agree with your opinion
Are you actually stupid or is this just an act? Ock, Goblin, or Venom have never killed Spidey. That's my POINT.
You were spouting that Venom can match Spidey in a fight and that somehow makes him something special. It doesn't. Venom is only doing what most of Spidey's enemies can do.
One of many reasons why Venom doesn't belong with the big boys. Sam Raimi is correct. He researched Venom's comics and saw the same thing anyone with half a brain can see. Venom is not a good villain. He has not done anything substantial as a character.
He's mere eye candy.
Oh you silly, silly, boy. Ock DID learn Spidey's identity during the Clone Saga, when he and Stunner captured and unmasked him. They retconned it when they brought Ock back from the dead after the Clone Saga by saying he didn't remeber anything just prior to his death.
Norman and Venom didn't figure out Spidey's identity either. Norman worked out a way to numb Peter's Spidey sense and then followed him home.
As for Venom, he was handed the knowledge on a silver plate thru the symbiote. Nothing clever about that.
Ock and Gobby employed strategies to learn Spidey's identity. Venom was just told it. Lame.
Never happened. Ock had no fear of the Six. He faced them head on.
I merely mentioned it as part of the many great things they've done.
That's fantastic. That's one of the many reasons why Norman is one of the big boys. No arguement there. Thanks for backing up my point
You still have failed to prove why you believe that.
It's just sour grapes because I've listed valid reasons and comic book instances that show Venom is inferior, and Ock and Gobby are vastly superior.
Don't shoot the messanger.
And Goblin got pwned by failing to kill Spidey because the citizens threw trash at him. "You mess with Spidey then you mess with New York".
It was to show ordinary citizens stand up against adversity to support the hero. Corny but true.
But they rectified that by showing Ock pwning all the citizens on the train when they tried to protect Spidey.
Doc Ock, no offense but the idea that Venom is popular because of the way he looks is bs. I dont like him because he has simillar to Spider-man powers, i like the character. His background, the fact that he has his own moral code. Venom's actually deeper than ANY other Spider-man villain and the fact that Spider-man caused Venom to exist only makes it more interesting. Raimi didn't understand ALL that, which is the ONLY reason Spider-man 3 sucked ass.
Also, Venom is the only enemy Spider-man is REALLY affraid of.
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Last edited by SamZED on Dec 19th, 2008 at 11:28 PM
They wont make that. No way. That's been rumoured for years.
Why do you think they blew up Venom at the end of Spider-Man 3? If Sony wanted to continue with the character, he'd have lived. They'd have had Brock escape or put in prison etc. It's all baseless, mate.
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Dec 19th, 2008 03:00 PM
Norman has more evil in his pinky than Ock does in his entire body. And if I remember correctly Ock got pwned by aunt may in the spider-man 2 movie. 
