This thread is coming from a fun argument I'm currently having with a few friends, let us know your opinion.
John Preston from the movie Equilibrium. He is armed with his automatic pistols with several reload clips for each, as well as his sword.
vs
Against Neo from the movie The Matrix. He will be armed with all the weapons he had during the lobby shootout.
To clarify this is Neo before he became the one.
The setting will be one of the scenario's in the movie Gamer. Including the moving vehicles and pedestrians.
Periodically, yes, but he eventually can be overwhelmed. Preston didn't seem to have that problem. Neo lost his balance and would've been killed had it not been for Trinity.
Neo is quite uber. He's stronger than Preston. He's more durable than Preston. Preston is more intelligent. Preston is faster. Neo has the best all around skills but Preston is better with guns.
Well, damn. Even after Neo becomes the one, his H2H skill is about he same as Preston's....cept Neo gets uber strength and endurance to go with it. However, Preston gets his ass handed to him by Neo, H2H, with any version of Neo(after Neo learns all of that stuff, of course.)
If it's in the lobby and its a gun fight and Trinity ain't around to kiss Neo back to life, Preston, 99 out of 100 times.
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
Preston is just a master of a specific art. Neo dodges bullets naturally and is a master of every martial art as well as knowing everything there is to know about firearms and shooting.
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Neo, before he became The One? I'd say Preston takes him 8/10.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
Different universes, bro. As fact, Gun Kata didn't exist in Neo's universe. Keep in mind, you can't give abilities to characters that are not in the films.
Incorrect. As fact, Neo used a just a select few martial arts in the film. The list is only like, 3 deep.
Incorrect premises to conclude the latter. However, the former's conclusion is sound.
For the purposes of the fight the characters obviously have to be in the same "universe" and one of Neo's onscreen feats is almost instantly learning any martial arts while jacked in. If his ability to learn is similar to Trinity's then it wouldn't just be martial arts.
Regardless of what he displays, he adapts to his opponent. Clearly shown in reloaded against the "upgrades".
What he uses in the film can also be a matter of choreography because it looks good. Doesn't mean that he wouldn't use them if needed in a hypothetical fight.
Actually, no, they meat in a third universe that allows each character to carry over with them their full abilities, ungimped, WITHOUT giving them abilities they didn't have, such as Gun Kata.
I'm not sure what your point is because Neo didn't have to adapt at all against the upgrades. Hell, he had a tougher time against the Frenchmen's henchmen. (Yes, I did that on purpose.)
That's not the point you made and that's not a response to my response to the point you made.
He did have to adapt to the upgrades as his initial attack was blocked...Hence he said "hmm?...upgrades" and changed his attack strategy.
It's an explanation as to why you only see limited martial arts techniques used. Obviously Keanu Reeves couldn't actually learn every martial art in the world. So they trained him to a small degree in some and choreographed them in. They do, however, show that the character of Neo is supposed to be programmed with every martial art known. Thus his character can use them in a hypothetical fight regardless of whether he used them in the matrix movies.
Do you have definitive proof that he changed the angle of attacks/martial art style/speed of attacks/stance, etc.? (Edit - and you can't just post a vid and say that's proof. You must analyze the vid and prove, with past showings, that he adjusts his technique.)
You can't make claims like that without backing them up.
My theory: He didn't do anything different. He just kept on fighting.
I'm glad you made this point.
Now, show me a martial art that uses guns and now prove, with a canon source, that Neo knows that technique. (The Matrix has canon sources, I believe.) On top of this, you have to convincingly prove that Gun Kata is useless against that technique.
The proof is exactly what i've already posted. He tried his previous technique that worked against Smith in M1 and it was blocked. It was a stationary stance, blocking with one hand and then attempting to counter with a single punch. It didn't work. He then completely changed his attack approach.
So clearly your theory is a load of shite.
Odd that you claim he didn't do anything different...But don't back it up...yet ask me to.
He doesn't have to know a martial art that involves guns. He just has to know one that counters gun attacks.
Krav Maga is a technique that has specific training moves to defend against gun attacks.
Why would I have to prove that Gun Kata was useless from a martial arts pov? I stated that Neo would likely not fall into the statistical analysis that GK employes to counter enemies. This is because Neo doesn't fall into statistical averages in terms of strength, speed, h2h or gun knowledge.
Although not shown on screen, we can presume as highly likely that Neo's natural abilities with guns weren't particularly good so any training that he would have had in gun use would be programmed similar to his martial arts. In that respect then we can also presume that it's to an exceptionally high calibre. Given his showing against trained SWAT teams this is evident.
You also missed my last point. I was countering the idea that he only used a small amount of martial arts techniques in the movie and thus he can only use those types. This is nonsense. It's quite clearly shown in the movies, through the scene where he's jacked in and Tank calls him "a machine" that he is being programmed with far more than the techniques he shows during fights...Thus these skills are applicable to his character in a hypothetical fight.
I'm not sure but I even think that the aformentioned Krav Maga is one of those that is actually shown on the computer screen. I'd need to check again though.
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Last edited by jaden101 on Nov 8th, 2009 at 12:39 PM
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